Player Features and Ideas Discussion

High sec is'nt this? Of course the only difference is that, in EvE, we have to add all the players who want to stay in the safe areas. I understand why though, since it is hard to join null sec PvP if you don't have any contact in any aliances there. That and not everyone has plenty of time to go do that.

Also, let's check what you said.

NPC mission agents: It is pure PvE, i agree. Unless you're at war with someone (kill rights included) or someone decides to ninja salvage your stuff.

Epic arc and cosmos missions: Same as above.

exploration: How about competition? You're not alone searching for these and Player versus Player is'nt only in battle. If you look on wiki, it says that it means player competing versus each other. "PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each other." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

industry: Same as Exploration. Competition between players over the markets is PvP interaction.

mining: Depends where you are. High sec mining is the same as industry. Ore prices are driven by the player economy and not fixed prices by CCP.

standing, in general: NPC standings, yes. Player set standings, no.

incursions: How about all the competition between FCs who fights for Incursion sites? Or the pilots who decided to fight for sansha during the invasions? Speaking of which, it would be fun to see more of those.

So you're saying that there is no PvP in lowsec?
Subject to PvP: competition over loot and salvage, mission completion item ransoming, and (for cosmos missions in particular) competition over limited spawns.
All PvP: competition over limited resources.
All PvP: competition over limited resources and for “highest score” in order to win the rewards.

Of the things you listed, only one is not PvP, and even then, only in a very limited sense. Missions do indeed have two elements that are not subject to competition: clicking the “request mission” button and clicking the “complete mission” button. Everything in-between is done in competition with other players — Player versus Player.

I want people to do more pvp in low sec.

Removing the sec status lost for fighting in low sec is a -good- thing. This means people that live in high sec and don't want to lose the ability to fly in high sec can go to low sec system to pvp when they have time.

PVP is a part of EVE. It's fun. It destroys isk and material.

Removing sec status lost in Low sec will allow more people to pvp! This is good!

PvP is only a part of EvE as much as you want to participate in it. Being on the receiving end of ganking once too often I say ship-to-ship "fights" don't hold any appeal to me. They didn't even before, to be honest. Sure, just undocking actually means risking ship loss, but there are numerous ways to mitigate that risk, like flying something inexpensive or simple operational security.

Sure, when putting something onto the market (loot, most notably), you do some kind of PvP as well with your competing offers, but that has nothing to do with sec status, CONCORD, killmails or whatever and doesn't fall under the category of what people first think when PvP is mentioned.

Oxfor dictionary say: Transvestite, Pronunciation: /tranzˈvɛstʌɪt, trɑːnz-, -ns-/
noun
a person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes appropriate to the opposite sex.

1-My time I price high, as time is the fabric life is made of. Thats why I fight people wastes his time telling ME what to do or how to play my games.
2-Ethimologically idiot means one who minds his own, enclosed in his own way, etc. Root of words as idiosincracy. In the way iliterates transvestites use the term, no, I am not an idiot and I am my own boss by the way I have not employer.
3-Again another hallucinated thinking eve is not game but real life and win is measured in terms of time/isk-win. Seems that gaining a lot of isk (about 80 millions per day having fun) is that bad for you that I am losing my time. I'd like to see you posting the same about your friends cloacking all day or fliping high sec noob cans. Thats not isk worthy at all, but since their fun comes from griefing, that pleases you?
4-[/keep your hands to yourself little boy]

PvE things, such as the market, PI, mining, so on and so forth being called PvP is an abstract viewpoint. By defining such things as PvP in such a loose and casual way, you've effectively made every MMO on the planet a PvP game. If some guy is attempting to get the same quest objectives as you in the same area, but you never truly interact on a person to person basis, you are defining that as PvP. By such a loose definition, everyday events in real life can be called PvP, from driving to work to shopping at the grocery store. Hell, changing your baby's diaper could effectively be called PvP because you are trying to get the clean one on before your infant lets loose a wee shower on you.

The above mentioned events would be better defined as competion. You are competing in a market, or in production or distribution. There are others who are doing the same thing as you, and while they may knock their prices down by an isk or two, this isn't PvP. What you are really seeing is capitalism. Capitalism is competition, not PvP. You are competing for the privilege of people buying your product and not the other guy's stuff. A real life example is Wal-Mart versus Target, or Best Buy versus Circuit City. Two seperate entities who just happen to have the same products, vying for people to buy their items over their competitors.

Honestly, I am of the mind that calling PvE activities PvP not only dilutes the meaning of the phrase Player versus Player, it also completely cheapens the very nature of PvP itself. It turns it into something entirely different from what it once was. True PvP is two or more players interacting personally in an effort to produce a favorable outcome in combat for their side or sides. It's fast and sometimes brutal and often it affects more than one person on a side. If one fleet is completely destroyed, not just one player benefits or loses, but many. In PvE, more often than not, only one person will reap the rewards of his or her hard work, with no effect to anyone else.

So in other words....

PvE = Capitalism, competition for business, personal gain through means that require no personal interaction with any other player.

PvP = Player Combat, often involving personally interacting with other players in order to achieve an objective or goal

It's either that or you start accepting games like WoW and LotRO are also PvP-centric games by the definition given to activities within the construct that is Eve.