Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If you're in a WH couldn't you just use a nestor for refitting then if your dreads/carriers are not in large numbers due to mass?

Further I'm slightly confused, would this change prevent anyone from refitting while they have a weapons timer, or would it just prevent the ship that has the refitting service from allowing other ships to refit while IT has the weapons timer?

You're vastly underselling how much is required in this situation. If you're in a Chimera, for example, you have to know already that an Avatar is coming in, you have to refit as many mid-slots as possible to EM hardeners (meaning the ones there have to cycle down), and it still puts you into deep armor. This happened to a friend of mine, the titan that hit him only had Doomsday 4 and the only reason he survived was because he knew the titan was coming. That's also before the EHP reduction.

With the upcoming new capital-sized modules, also, planning and fitting beforehand is still very important because you can only store at most two of them in your cargo hold/fleet hangar. You won't be able to hot-swap more than one capital-sized module on your fit. There is also fleet composition and where to drop the capitals that is important. Also intel as to whether or not they'll drop more than you can handle is still really important.

Slowcats are dead anyway. Force aux can't do damage, carriers can't remote rep.

Even when you refit to full tank, those ten dreadnoughts WILL kill that Naglfar. Combat refitting won't change that. Even 3v1, the three without refitting will still certainly kill that one. Fleet fights have more than enough DPS to overpower it anyway. What combat refitting does is allows small groups with capitals to actually use skill in an otherwise low-skill, land-and-press-F1 matchup.

No, capitals aren't precious, and they should be perfectly killable. I'm a sub-cap pilot first and foremost; I like catching and killing capitals. But without combat refitting, the name of the game is bringing one more dreadnought than your opponents do. EWar still won't do much in that situation (tracking disruption and damps when you're already right next to your stationary-target), and the EWar resistance will reduce incoming repairs so force aux isn't as much of a force multiplier either.

In capital warfare, I think the reduction in EHP and capital-sized modules are enough to make combat refitting less of a problem.

It's that last one.

A lot LESS ships will explode.


People hold caps on a pedestal. It's weird, I have corpies who will YOLO around in multibillion isk marauders/BLOPS for lols, but would shudder at the thought of taking a much cheaper carrier through a gate.

Go figure.

Name one group left who aren't risk averse. Seriously.

Even the CFC, who could likely whelp a cap fleet every for day for a year and not notice, are reasonably risk averse.


What you find about most in eve is that most groups are all mouth and no trousers. Consider the various low sec power groups, they'll drop on any and everything, but stick a single PL toon in local and they're like roaches in the sunlight.


There won't be any "plucky underdog", the minute they stick their necks out they'll be promptly removed. Supers will find themselves dying to swarms of BLOPS and bombers too, since they can hold tackle without a HIC.


No, no, my money is firmly on a consolidation of risk aversity.

not risk averse:

CODE (giggle)
Vimsy (check her losses)

BRUCE (last SOV null group to have real moxy)


I agree risk aversion is the current thing, but I just don't think it will be the way to sustainability going forward. The good thing is time will tell and there is plenty of popcorn to go around.

As far as the plucky underdog - I see Plucky Underdog Alliance ticker (BAIT) being just the thing to draw out an escallatable event. I think the new tackle mechanics will help this along.

The wh mass/range thing - 3 large groups said 'rolling caps will die', the rest of wh space accurately predicted the outcome. Which is a lesson to CCP about listening - one more time - to the large groups about how to make the game better.

If you don't tackle every lone capital ship you find without even thinking - shame on you. Going forward even more so. Mega alliances will soon be considering wether that solo Moros save is worth risking an escallating event that could spiral out of control. Always engage solo caps w/ a cruiser fleet - ffs just use the new and improved kiting bc class - Fozzie made it easy to keep the warp out option on the table.

60 seconds is long enough to die in a capital fight, especially after they reduce their EHP.

Because 60 seconds is long enough to die in a capital fight, I would argue it takes emphasis off of situational awareness, because there's nothing you could do about it anyway.

So now you're a large group with scouts in every system in the constellation? Those are the only guys who can run capitals? Your example doesn't really work.

I don't see the issue here. Yes 60 seconds is long enough to die. A fully tanked dread, currently, can be obliterated in 10 seconds by a large enough fleet. Your entire premise is that a fleet hostile fleet is dropped with 0 warning and you are worried about your ship not lasting the 60 seconds to refit to a tank fit that wouldn't help anyways?

No capital or sub cap force that is capable of destroying a balanced fit capital in under 60 seconds 'appears' out of nowhere. Your fleet failed to scout properly.

It takes a fair amount of time for a fleet to position properly and engage a hostile fleet, even at point blank range, (which by the way you can prevent with a cyno inhibitor module), not to mention moving to a secondary target. Sure, more ships will be destroyed before the fleet can refit to tank, due to the weapons timer. Which means the FC needs to make the call, coast to refit to tank and counter attack? Or try to race dps to regain control of the grid?

60 seconds is enough for anything to die reduced EHP or not. If you don't want to be on the recieving end of a below 60 second kill, then don't warp/jump in with a gank fit.

It might be 300 seconds....just sayin'




@Rosal Milag: Supers and DPS carriers are a different ballgame because they can all receive reps. Dreads cannot whilst doing anything appreciably related to their role.

You think people will be happy stuck in siege for a full 5 minutes whilst being unable to refit at all? I do not.