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CCP admits the oneiros is fail... so how does one go about fixing it?

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1 - 2011-12-11 20:22:53 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Space priest checking in: Was heaps of fun, thanks for coming and killing us. Although this time around we made it a bit easier for you guys by flying Oneiros Blink

Looking forward to get killed more often o/



IMO all ones needs to do is:

A. Increase the base armor to 3000

b. Increase the drone bay to 100 m3

C. Increase the cargo bay Size so it can hold MORE cap charges

D. Change the tracking Link Bonus to a Remote ECCM bonus

E. Add enough pg so it can fit 4 large RR a Cap injector and a 1600

This is the ideal fit for me:

Highs

4 large tech II remote armour reps

mids:
10mn ab II
2 remote ECCM II
1 medium cap injector with 800's

lows:
1600 thungsten
2 energy adaptives II
explosive hardner II
DCU II

rigs:
2 trimarks

discussTwisted

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#2 - 2011-12-11 20:36:31 UTC
Don't nerf tracking link bonus, tbh. It has uses and would be a shame to remove. I'd agree with more grid and such, but the goal should not be to make it on par with the Guardian as a fleet logi, but rather to help the Oneiros shine in small gang roams like a solo scimmy does in shield fleets.

I'd actually be a fan of anything that would let an active armor tank be at all competitive with shield tanking the Oneiros when you're flying it solo.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#3 - 2011-12-11 20:50:40 UTC
you know i could even see mixed fleet of oneiros and guardians... the guardians would drop the 4 remote rep for a 3rd energy tsf and the oneiros would drop the cap booster for a 3rd remote ECCM...

would be pretty epic... plus it would make Fleet fights more complex which is allways a good thing...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Brock Nelson
#4 - 2011-12-11 20:52:09 UTC
B) No. It already has twice the drone bay size compared to Guardian, Basilisk and slighly more than Scimitar, why would increasing it even more make it any better?

You made all those demands but you haven't even explained why...

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#5 - 2011-12-11 20:54:23 UTC
It already got enough PG to fit 4 large reps and a 1600mm plate.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#6 - 2011-12-11 20:58:03 UTC
I like how your quote does not say anything about the Oneiros being 'fail'.

It got a nice buff recently which was pretty much in line with my expectations for the ship.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-12-11 20:58:30 UTC
Op is joking OC, Ony now is more versatile in use but from there to bring it in to big fleet fight I don't think he's the best for the job but I might has well be wrong. Guardian is still better for fleet fights (with some Ony behind them in backup that must be really carnage)
Rixiu
PonyTek
#8 - 2011-12-11 21:02:39 UTC
After the recent buff the oneiros is on pair with the guardians rep power and ehp, I honestly don't see the need for another buff.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#9 - 2011-12-11 21:04:55 UTC
It's not meant to be a Guardian. Try fitting out a Guardian to do the solo Logistics an Oneiros can do and see how it sort of can but falls short.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
CCP Lemur
#10 - 2011-12-11 21:05:59 UTC
Disclaimer: I'm no game designer and the event had a racial fleet theme.

Not every logi is supposed to be a Guardian. The Guardian is really good at remote rep for sure, but the Oneiros isn't too bad at this and has the tracking link bonus on top of it. I fly both of them on my player account in Incursion fleets and they are fun to fly when used for what they are supposed to do.

QA Guy | Special Ops Picture up to your IMGination.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#11 - 2011-12-11 21:18:05 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm no game designer and the event had a racial fleet theme.

Not every logi is supposed to be a Guardian. The Guardian is really good at remote rep for sure, but the Oneiros isn't too bad at this and has the tracking link bonus on top of it. I fly both of them on my player account in Incursion fleets and they are fun to fly when used for what they are supposed to do.



hmm... not how these guys feel...

CCP Habakuk wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:
That was some leet bombing runs guys. You kept us logistics pilots very busy with our little Oneiros' Big smile

Confirming that the Oneiros needs some love Blink


There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
CCP Lemur
#12 - 2011-12-11 21:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Lemur
Haba is just whining because he died Blink

If I want the ship with the best armor rep output I'd choose a Guardian, sure. If I want a ship with remote armor and tracking links capabilities I choose an Oneiros.
If all ships would be the same it would be very boring, wouldn't it?

QA Guy | Special Ops Picture up to your IMGination.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#13 - 2011-12-11 21:21:46 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Lemur wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm no game designer and the event had a racial fleet theme.

Not every logi is supposed to be a Guardian. The Guardian is really good at remote rep for sure, but the Oneiros isn't too bad at this and has the tracking link bonus on top of it. I fly both of them on my player account in Incursion fleets and they are fun to fly when used for what they are supposed to do.



hmm... not how these guys feel...

CCP Habakuk wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:
That was some leet bombing runs guys. You kept us logistics pilots very busy with our little Oneiros' Big smile

Confirming that the Oneiros needs some love Blink




tongue in cheek?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#14 - 2011-12-11 21:22:41 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
B) No. It already has twice the drone bay size compared to Guardian, Basilisk and slighly more than Scimitar, why would increasing it even more make it any better?

You made all those demands but you haven't even explained why...


increased drone bay would give the ship options for drones...

like you could put in a bunch of warrior II or a bunch of ecm drones or even use logi drones...

50 m3 is too small for a gal ship...

as for increased armor to 3000 it was actually ccp tallest idea... and tbh having the ship have 10k plus armor would be rather nice for me...

changing the tracking link would be controversial but tbh i dont like pve so much and am more a pvp guy... i mean a whole race is just for small schirmishes? no wonder they lost to the caldari...Oops

increased pg would allow you if you wanted to go duel mar II for small scale pvp...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
mkint
#15 - 2011-12-11 21:25:48 UTC
and here I thought onei already had more RR Power than a guardian... because onei could always fit T2 reps easier, and has bonuses to drones and bigger drones, it had a total repping power of 1 extra LRAR over the guardian. It's problem is not being able to fit both equivalent tank and an AB like the guardian can. Sure, with an onei you don't get your fleet to be immune to neuts, but your fleet does have better DPS potential. I can see how having your fleet immune to ECM could be appealing, but it really would be a shame to lose the extra DPS potential, especially since the ECM mechanic already needs to be completely thrown away and started over from scratch.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#16 - 2011-12-11 21:30:48 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
Haba is just whining because he died Blink

If I want the ship with the best armor rep output I'd choose a Guardian, sure. If I want a ship with remote armor and tracking links capabilities I choose an Oneiros.
If all ships would be the same it would be very boring, wouldn't it?



lemur is it that he was upset he died or more that failente fail at anthing larger then 5v5 unless you are in caps?

true enough perhaps you might not want to boost so it could go 4 large reps...

but having only one option for fleet armor logi is also boring too... if you catch my drift...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#17 - 2011-12-11 21:35:48 UTC
After the boost, it's quite easy to fit an oneiros that reps about as much as a guardian (maybe 5% less), but with more buffer and more sensor strength. The downside is depending on cap boosters. But it can carry enough charges for around 10 minutes.

So the oneiros is pretty good for smaller gangs where the fights don't last nearly as long. While the guardian excels at larger, longer fights. Sounds pretty balanced.

What doesn't work is CCP trying to cap chain with oneiros. If you really want to fight larger fights with the oneiros, you have to fit them scimitar-style, with a few rechargers, and you become very vulnerable to neuting.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#18 - 2011-12-11 21:36:03 UTC
It's quite obvious you don't know what you are talking about. Why don't you quit before you say anything even more naive.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#19 - 2011-12-11 21:42:00 UTC
I have no idea what i am saying right?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#20 - 2011-12-11 21:45:01 UTC
Bad proposals don't magically become good because someone at CCP theorises over them.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
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