EVE General Discussion

That's a pretty low-quality equivalency.

Still no logical or scientific support of SP though.


So, now you're claiming the prerogative to what kind of subs the game deserves?

Here:


Reputation is a decent criticism. That's as simple as rep being tied to the account though.

There's also a great study about increasing character loyalty and that leading to increased game loyalty.

"One strategy found that giving players more control and ownership of their character increased loyalty [to the game]. The second strategy showed that gamers who played cooperatively and worked with other gamers in "guilds" built loyalty and social identity.

To build a player's feeling of ownership towards its character, game makers should provide equal opportunities for any character to win a battle."

In this game, that comes through competence and strategy. Unfortunately, it's also completely undermined by SP, and this is probably why the same sovereignties have had their areas as much as they have. There's not enough effectiveness for newbies and their interests. That includes ISK-making diversity and depth for keeping play fresh.

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It's unrealistic and inauthentic to expect interest in a game where most of the progression is beyond player control. If you're reading about motivation, you'll realize that's a big issue for feeling great about the experience. Subs get bored because they're not being challenged witih fresh learning material. "Leveling up their Raven" barely counts as gameplay content, where the game's feature list is a deep economy, production, and classes of ships up through capitals and super-capitals.

Obviously, I could poke at bits of the game; but it's interesting getting feedback or challenges. Bring it.

Is this the Toilet Paper section? Because I see Dror is peddling lots and, in fact, he is shoving pack upon pack of the stuff in my trolley when I insist that I merely came in here for glycerine suppositories

WoW's arenas and battlegrounds, at max level (because leveling PvP isn't tuned), allow having the best gear; and that level of stats is the same as other characters.

That's all about gameplay though. On that, SP limiting (e.g.) a newbie's gameplay does so for every further character that interacts with him. So, SP reducing contend detracts from the whole experience. Stations are empty because of limited industry, travels increase because of fewer stocked stations, and plausibly some characters become unsubbed because of the low amount of action per refitting.

How can you honestly support this? How can it be listed as a feature? WoW has to gate its content because it's no sandbox. You're saying, though, that the playing field is still unfair in that game, yet there's the same opportunity for professions or PvP gear or PvE gear, without forcing a progression niche. If a character feels like being industrious and providing value, they can. If they feel like mixing up their guild PvP with some raiding -- that's diversity. It keeps play fresh.

Corps being limited to T1 ships and ISK-making in a T3 meta and market devalues their play and gives them much less to be competitive at. If they get farmed by camping corps, they can't just get better. It's like that for ever bit of their potential.

The trend is that "lack of content" is the major reason for MMO sub problems. It's true for WoW. It was true for SWG. SP's limits are incredibly awful.

So basically, you want access to all the shiny stuff from the get go. Not even WoW does that w/o a price. Sure, you can bump any toon to level 90, for a price.

I've played many MMO's over the years and all of them had some sort of progression to it. That's the nature of the game. Heck, even single player RPG's (Skyrim) does this. What fun would any game be if the devs simply handed you all the top level gear w/o working for it? Sure, it'd be superficial fun at first; but that would wear off, you'd get bored and move on to something else in a short period of time. Heck, if this how future games are to be made, we'll see an even harder crash of the gaming industry than what we had back in the '80's.

As others have said, Eve is a hobby. It is something to sink money into and provides entertainment, just like any other hobby. Heck, one could say the entire gaming industry is a hobby. Everything about it is a money sink.

To me (and most others), skill points are a necessity of Eve. It gives new players a goal to achieve; and while waiting for that goal, they get to build up their bank for that shiny new toy they want, make new friends (or enemies), explore new places and etc. If anything were to be done to the SP system, I'd like to see the training times shortened a bit. Not everyone will agree and that's ok, because I was simply stating an opinion.

The biggest problem with your arguments, Dror, is you continue to compare Eve -a sandbox game- to non sandbox games with a biased criticism. It'd be like comparing Call of Duty to Skyrim and then saying Skyrim is bad because it doesn't work the same as Call of Duty.

As a 10+ year vet, I've seen this game go from awesome to even more awesome(er) (bad English, oh well).

I don't understand why people are treating the OP like his thoughts have actual merit that warrant discussion, consideration, refutation, etc.

This post is kind of like when my nutty coworker starts carrying on about Chemtrails, Illuminati, or what Obama is doing to the water supply.

You just smile, nod, and look for a way out.

Refute it, then.

Dror, you need to realize that CCP's niche is doing what other MMOs don't. It's whole basis, it's attraction, is around not holding your hand, not giving you a fair fight, kicking you in the balls and the expecting you to get the hell up, raise your fists, and hit back. You cannot compare CCPs methods to those of other games because than in itself is a contradiction. CCPs methods are, purposefully, the opposite methods of other games. You must understand that.

Just another obstacle to overcome, meant to spit in your face like all the rest.

1/10, you can troll harder than that. And you were on such a roll

Seriously, though.. Sabotaging motivation is a poor method of showing subs that they're valuable.


It seems your implying that SP is some major feature for advertisement, yet it's nowhere to be found in videos. In fact, I've listed multiple reasons its a deterrent.

This is through page 6, and there's still no evidence that SP is any more helpful for an interesting game than without it.