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Unbiased Criticisms for the Game
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2015-10-25 11:01:26 UTC
Honestly, this is really amusing to watch. I want to know what makes him tick, what color the sky is in his world. I want to know what would make a logical thinking being post such things.

Again, this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy and told they're special.
Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#262 - 2015-10-25 11:03:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Thierry Orlenard
Odie McCracken wrote:
Honestly, this is really amusing to watch. I want to know what makes him tick, what color the sky is in his world. I want to know what would make a logical thinking being post such things.

Again, this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy and told they're special.


He probably wants nothing more than a dev response telling him that his ideas are interesting and that his thread is being moved to Features and Ideas Discussion.

Edit: actually, he probably does want more than that, but the above would be a good start for him.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#263 - 2015-10-25 11:06:28 UTC
Odie McCracken wrote:
Honestly, this is really amusing to watch. I want to know what makes him tick, what color the sky is in his world. I want to know what would make a logical thinking being post such things.

Again, this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy and told they're special.
Much as it besmirches the good name of Freddy, this seems to be an appropriate intermission in the entertainment.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Jenshae Chiroptera
#264 - 2015-10-25 17:53:17 UTC
Dror wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kids these days want immediate self gratification and don't understand that a greater sense of accomplishment comes from achieving larger goals despite adversity and "random" obsticles.

Do you actually have any evidence for any of this? In fact, it's discussed in the thread exactly how SP negatively effects game loyalty.. and it's not as if the PCU is claiming anything else.
Your argument supports what I am saying in more than one way! Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#265 - 2015-10-25 17:57:09 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kids these days want immediate self gratification and don't understand that a greater sense of accomplishment comes from achieving larger goals despite adversity and "random" obsticles.

Do you actually have any evidence for any of this? In fact, it's discussed in the thread exactly how SP negatively effects game loyalty.. and it's not as if the PCU is claiming anything else.
Your argument supports what I am saying in more than one way! Lol

I can't get much more than "a small PCU is great for the game" out of this post.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#266 - 2015-10-25 18:16:05 UTC
Dror wrote:
I can't get much more than "a small PCU is great for the game" out of this post.
To humour you as a troll or a dim wit:
Older players are playing less, having careers and families. The immature kiddies that want everything now are more prolific. So, CCP can dumb down EVE, remove SP and hope they manage to catch enough attention deficient brats long enough to make some more cash or they can stick to their guns and keep going with their current player base.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#267 - 2015-10-25 18:36:43 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
I can't get much more than "a small PCU is great for the game" out of this post.
To humour you as a troll or a dim wit:
Older players are playing less, having careers and families. The immature kiddies that want everything now are more prolific. So, CCP can dumb down EVE, remove SP and hope they manage to catch enough attention deficient brats long enough to make some more cash or they can stick to their guns and keep going with their current player base.


Dror wrote:
You're making the whole of issues out to be a people problem. Prove it, then. Prove that motivation isn't some inherent process that design has to be submitted to. Prove that undermining player skillfulness is motivating, instead of its alternative of allowing progression and mastery.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#268 - 2015-10-25 18:38:54 UTC
Dror wrote:
... Prove that undermining player skillfulness is motivating, instead of its alternative of allowing progression and mastery.
Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#269 - 2015-10-25 18:47:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Prove that undermining player skillfulness is motivating, instead of its alternative of allowing progression and mastery.
Roll

Are you playing match the letters?

SP limits player effectiveness and performance (skillfulness), and it reduces progression of all types. If you're trying to imply that the fake, trickle-allocated stats is interesting character identity and social productivity..

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#270 - 2015-10-25 18:50:18 UTC
Dror wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Prove that undermining player skillfulness is motivating, instead of its alternative of allowing progression and mastery.
Roll

Are you playing match the letters?

SP limits player effectiveness and performance (skillfulness), and it reduces progression of all types. If you're trying to imply that the fake, trickle-allocated stats is interesting character identity and social productivity..



Rarely would I ever call for someone's right to free opinion be stifled on a public forum...

But for the love of all that is podded please shut up.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#271 - 2015-10-25 18:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cidanel Afuran
Dror wrote:
Is it logical that WoW lost 50% of its subs in a few quarters because of limited amounts of content? Furthermore, SWG is listed with "lack of content" as its main reason for unsubs.


A non-issue. WoW isn't a sandbox. It's up to us to make content, not CCP

And I'm going to ask you this question for the 5th time in this thread. Your ability to have selective attention is nothing short of impressive.

Actions have consequences. We like that. I can't blindly re-roll a new character and have the same skills. My reputation is tied to my name, and I have to live with my actions. We like that also. If you remove time-based SPs, reputation is suddenly meaningless, as anyone can re-roll a new character at any time. The entire social-political landscape of EVE disappears overnight.

Care to address this issue, oh Dror of mine?
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#272 - 2015-10-25 19:49:49 UTC
Odie McCracken wrote:
Honestly, this is really amusing to watch. I want to know what makes him tick, what color the sky is in his world. I want to know what would make a logical thinking being post such things.

Again, this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy and told they're special.



When Charles Babbage when he was asked if his difference engine could output the correct results given incorrect input, he said, "I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead to such a question."

Accordingly, I have to say this about this thread. I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead a person to think that anything Dror has posted constitutes anything resembling logic or reason. Much less anything that needs rebuttal or refutation.

The series is jaw-droppingly idiotic.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2015-10-25 21:08:05 UTC
Glathull wrote:
Odie McCracken wrote:
Honestly, this is really amusing to watch. I want to know what makes him tick, what color the sky is in his world. I want to know what would make a logical thinking being post such things.

Again, this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy and told they're special.



When Charles Babbage when he was asked if his difference engine could output the correct results given incorrect input, he said, "I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead to such a question."

Accordingly, I have to say this about this thread. I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead a person to think that anything Dror has posted constitutes anything resembling logic or reason. Much less anything that needs rebuttal or refutation.

The series is jaw-droppingly idiotic.

"Subs are getting bait-and-switch'd, and they don't seem to like it."

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#274 - 2015-10-25 21:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Glathull wrote:
... I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead a person to think that anything Dror has posted constitutes anything resembling logic or reason. ...
It is fairly simple.
Dror wants to fly a titan (or what ever ship) right now. He doesn't want to wait, doesn't want to get into a group with the assets, doesn't want to buy a character, he simply feels entitled to what ever it is he wants because he pays a subscription.
He is not alone in throwing a tantrum at the check out counter and screaming, "I want it now, mummy! I want it, right now!" There are a lot of spoilt people in this world, who have been over protected and told they are unique like everyone else.

Thus, there might be a basis for his half baked ideas.
That if CCP ripped the guts out of EVE, threw them in a blender and served them up as baby food, then maybe, just maybe, there would be more subscribers.

Personally, I think it would all collapse while trying to transition and compete with the other games which are far more polished at handing out shiny little trinkets and telling the feeble minded what special snow flakes they are.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2015-10-25 21:41:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Glathull wrote:
... I am not rightly able to comprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead a person to think that anything Dror has posted constitutes anything resembling logic or reason. ...
It is fairly simple.
Dror wants to fly a titan (or what ever ship) right now. He doesn't want to wait, doesn't want to get into a group with the assets, doesn't want to buy a character, he simply feels entitled to what ever it is he wants because he pays a subscription.
He is not alone in throwing a tantrum at the check out counter and screaming, "I want it now, mummy! I want it, right now!" There are a lot of spoilt people in this world, who have been over protected and told they are unique like everyone else.

Thus, there might be a basis for his half baked ideas.
That if CCP ripped the guts out of EVE, threw them in a blender and served them up as baby food, then maybe, just maybe, there would be more subscribers.

Personally, I think it would all collapse while trying to transition and compete with the other games which are far more polished at handing out shiny little trinkets and telling the feeble minded what special snow flakes they are.

Everything that can be described as a people problem can also be described as a game design issue.

Dror wrote:
Niko Lorenzio wrote:
This proposal caters to instant gratification sort of players.

This statement always shows a complete lack of a clue.

Please show us the game design or psychology research where this type of demographic is even stated.. much less than studied or implemented.

Motivation is pretty unbiased. Every game demographic enjoys feeling great. If paying a bunch of money does or doesn't do that for them probably has more to do with their disposable income and how much of the game they can experience before getting bored of a supposed sandbox MMO that limits its gameplay for microtransactions.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#276 - 2015-10-25 22:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Dror wrote:
This statement always shows a complete lack of a clue.

Please show us the game design or psychology research where this type of demographic is even stated.. much less than studied or implemented.

Motivation is pretty unbiased. Every game demographic enjoys feeling great. If paying a bunch of money does or doesn't do that for them probably has more to do with their disposable income and how much of the game they can experience before getting bored of a supposed sandbox MMO that limits its gameplay for microtransactions.


Firstly, can you try and make sense, this is what I surmise you are trying to say:
Quote:

This statement shows that you are completely clueless. / This statement shows that you haven't a clue what I am trying to say.

Kindly demonstrate the game design texts, methods or psychological research that has been created with the purposes of being applied to a similar demographic to EVE onine community. It does not even have to go so far as actually studying such a group or even having been implemented.

My motivations are fairly unbiased. I believe that every group of players enjoys feeling [mighty (like a hero?)]. Their lack of real life funds are their limitation in buying this sense of greatness. I think that microtransactions and barriers are being put in place, which result in people becoming bored of hitting up against them or not wanting to buy their way forward past them.


Do you see how you seem to be babbling out a bunch of words that you appear to not fully comprehend?

Your motivations are extemely suspect and your logic is completely flawed.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#277 - 2015-10-25 22:11:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
This statement always shows a complete lack of a clue.

Please show us the game design or psychology research where this type of demographic is even stated.. much less than studied or implemented.

Motivation is pretty unbiased. Every game demographic enjoys feeling great. If paying a bunch of money does or doesn't do that for them probably has more to do with their disposable income and how much of the game they can experience before getting bored of a supposed sandbox MMO that limits its gameplay for microtransactions.


Firstly, can you try and make sense, this is what I surmise you are trying to say:
Quote:

This statement shows that you are completely clueless. / This statement shows that you haven't a clue what I am trying to say.

Kindly demonstrate the game design texts, methods or psychological research that has been created with the purposes of being applied to a similar demographic to EVE onine community. It does not even have to go so far as actually studying such a group or even having been implemented.

My motivations are fairly unbiased. I believe that every group of players enjoys feeling [mighty (like a hero?)]. Their lack of real life funds are their limitation in buying this sense of greatness. I think that microtransactions and barriers are being put in place, which result in people becoming bored of hitting up against them or not wanting to buy their way forward past them.


Do you see how you seem to be babbling out a bunch of words that you appear to not fully comprehend?

Your motivations are extemely suspect and your logic is completely flawed.

Why would CCP discuss studies on motivation if there wasn't a commonality? They believe, as stated, that intrinsic motivation is about the best method to improve the NPE, with expectations also. So, they believe they can meet expectations of B-Rs for newbies? Literally how could they do that with SP? Newbies flying capitals is the best possibility for larger-scale engagements.

Realistic paintings aren't about subjective ideas of how reality functions. They follow rules and guidelines for the truth. Come. It's a great place.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#278 - 2015-10-25 22:18:08 UTC
Dror wrote:
... Newbies flying capitals is the best possibility for larger-scale engagements. ...
"The game only begins at max level!"
"Can I have a boost plz?"
- WoW n00bs.

As to your declarations that we need unfettered freedom; you are here and not in Second Life. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2015-10-25 22:21:22 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dror wrote:
... Newbies flying capitals is the best possibility for larger-scale engagements. ...
"The game only begins at max level!"
"Can I have a boost plz?"
- WoW n00bs.

As to your declarations that we need unfettered freedom; you are here and not in Second Life. Blink

In other words, "*strawman*".

Newbies aren't instigating sov in frigates either. ..Pretty simple correlation with low amounts of action.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#280 - 2015-10-25 22:30:17 UTC
How the **** can a newbie fly a cap when they don't even know what it does or afford one? it starts at 2B isk. So what is next. Get rid of isk. You don't even follow your own bloody game theory crap.

Can you please go and play star citizen or elite instead? Please.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.