EVE General Discussion

* /CONSPIRACY ON

Whilst being pushed as a thing for new players that is not the true motivation.

It is blatantly and clearly an alt creation tool for veterans in { insert big alliance } to instantly create various alts by subbing multiple new characters for one month while training those skills that maximise SP for the profile of that char using +5 implants a then transferring it all to a single alt.

* /CONSPIRACY OFF


On a more serious note this is a feature that is unlikely to be used by genuine new players but will be amazingly handy for alt creation.

The asshattery that will come with it isnt much of an issue for me. Its the instant gratification of the game. Yet the reality is that if I were to ever leave and get rid of my characters and assets and want to start over again the best and easiest way to do so is literally to drop $200-500 dollars into plex and buy my way back in. So this is ultimately what a lot of noobs are either being told to do or realizing very quickly that they need to do to become competitive on any real level.

As a vet I still say that the noob progression is almost needed. Not to feed off them because they are noobs but to grow in the game and create those vital experiences. But like life every child wants to be an adult and cant wait and would pull a Tom Hanks "Big" to get there. And so they will scream and pout and cry and throw a temper tantrum because theyre not full grown in the game as well. They wants it!! and they wants it NOAW!! And thats all there is to it. And I feel that CCP is caving to that mentality and trying to milk it for profits. Ultimately its their game and they are a company designed to make money.

So Im torn in some ways but still very much against the entire aspect of where its heading.

For me, If there is incentive to be on grid, that is happy for me. Logi and warefare links are my bread and butter. Anything that ups the challenge of warfare links to bring them on grid makes me happy. I have the full Leaderships to five including all command five command ships plus related ship skills. It was years of training to specialize so I refuse to offgrid boost. I want to be part of the action, not losing boosts cause of warping safespots or sitting in a POS.

As a specialized support focused character the buy to my level of requires SP would have bothered me. Mostly because it devalues the pride I put on the effort. That said, if somebody wants to spend that money on a game, I cannot argue. Is it really that different than a flashy car, or watch, etc.? We should be glad people want to spend that level of coin in Eve. The number presented don't make it likely to be a common occurence. It mainly will affect the attitude of characters 1-2 years where the level of SP is more noticable and more likely to see the newb being more powerfu

On the Vet side, I suspect it is more of a slippery slope concern which can be valid. Make the new players more important (fleets of footsoldiers) and many will be less likely to bulk buy. Most purchases will assuredly be spoiling oneself with farmed isk, or to just remove that first high sp skill to get that desired T2 hull. There is a devaluing a bit in S-peen, but those of us who dont transfer can brag that. Will see how it works. If we can get mechanics favoring larger fleet with squad on squad, buying a large host of SP is less of an effect. One SP boosted amongst 100-200 peeps isnt going to do much. Ditto goes for any form of the complex side of eve that favors player skill and attention. Eve has much like that.

The bit about SP not mattering is a bit of a falsity. I always say that there are vital roles that a low sp investment can fill. I also make them aware they are footsoldiers so a front line for those of high SP. As such I prepare them the mentality that they will lose ships and be part of the blob. It is okay though since I covered their cheap hulls. Not some ace hero off the bat, but still was important.

Some people want to be top of the killboard.

I think it correlates with ships as part of the complaints. The thing about Skillpoints is that, regardless of how much money you have, there are certain ships you cannot fly without the pre-requisite skill having been trained up, with the highest-levels of ships taking around half a year's worth of time to train, or other skills that also take a comparatively long time to train up.

I think vets are afraid that, with SP being turned into a buyable commodity (although it ignores that people have to re-allocate skill points with the Extractor first to create the Packet), that system will now be circumvented. They think that a major barrier to pay-to-win has been removed because now, on top of buying the biggest and most expensive ships in the game, new players who throw their wealth into the game with reckless abandon can now simply buy Skill Packets and give automatic level-ups to skills they want for a particular type of play style.

In other words, instead of playing the game and gaining actual experience while your skills train up in the interim in preparation for flying a new class of ship, new players will simply be able to buy Packets to speed up their training speed to the extent that skill which would have once taken days or weeks to level, and ships that once would have taken months upwards to half a year to train for can be accomplished in only FRACTIONS OF THE TIME by buying Skill Packets to automatically level up any pre-requisite skills.

At which point you will have complete rookies flying Tech 2 and Tech 3 ships around, whereas before levelling up the skills and gaining the experience necessary through gameplay to fly those ships effectively was a mark of pride, and a rite of passage for players in EVE Online.

At least, that is how I think some of the more bitter vets think about it.

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One way to deal with this problem is for the vets to regulate the Skill Packets. Keep the sale of them restricted to contracts within your Corporations or Alliances, use them to give new Corp members of a certain skill level a helping hand to progress faster in the game, or even use them to help an Alt level up their skills if you do not have the time to play as them or do not want to spend the money on PLEX to allow Multiple Character Training which would be better spent on extending game time.

The most advantageous thing I see about this is the ability to re-allocate points from skills which you do not use anymore and put them to use in other categories, or on Alts who you want to train in those specific skill types.

The second most advantageous thing? Strategic Cruisers. I've heard that you lose skill points when a Strategic Cruiser you trained for goes up in smoke. Assuming your SP has not crossed the forbidden 80 mill mark, then you can just use a packet to re-train the lost Strategic Cruiser skillpoints back to levels of your liking.

The other advantageous trait is what I mentioned above: helping newer Corps members get on their feet in the meta-game, especially in Null-Sec.

There is also the possibility of making a profit, depending on how they're priced. I'd estimate they will be worth more than PLEX they will be in such high demand. That would most likely dissuade people from buying them wholesale, especially if price increases from demand.

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In the end, there is a lot of good and potentially a lot of bad involved, but the benefits to yourself will inevitably out-weigh any fears of how this may affect new players in the future.

If you want to be on grid, then be on grid. Nothing is really stopping that in many cases. You can do that now.

Forcing links on grid is often called for, yet it will do nothing to improve links play in at least a 1/3 rd of cases and with grid foo, the links ship won't get anymore in the action a lot of the time.

There are much more creative options, none of which will prevent links from being on grid anyway, just as they aren't prevented from being on grid now.

By that logic, why have training of skills at all? Set everyone to the same point and let them battle it out. No training queues, no skilling up, nothing but go in and "play".

People like to feel they earn their way through a game, opening up new opportunities and new ways of doing things. When improving by earning goes away then the game tends to fade being as it's flat. This flattening is only by your credit card so only those "new" players with a few hundred spare will flatten the field.

The SP opens up more options to people. It lets them decide which options/paths they wish to follow. It lets them figure what unique ways they are going to be stronger or weaker and the longer you play the more options you open up.

The char market is annoying to some but you are buying a character that exists and was skilled up - not a "I put it where I want it" but something unique that grew in this game and, with older characters, the skill sets rarely perfectly match any other characters - there are always small differences here or there; they are unique and grew that way.

This SP pack logic will see an end to most uniqueness beyond how deep your pockets are.

Newer in my litle life am i going to sell any of my SP, and if i would sell lets say 50 mills of sp to a noob so he can be hi skilled, he still will be a noob. And belive me, i could sell some of them as i have been here since 2003, then the noob was practising in tetris, so i will always outskill him in my head of knowledge.

The interesting dichotomy here is that the same people who laugh at posters getting worked up over the 1.2b price of PLEX are in the official thread shouting, "Think of the poor new players,. They might have to spend a few hundred million to get out of a suicide tackler a little sooner".

So which is it? Stop whining. You can make the ISK for a PLEX in a few hours - or - People will leave the game because they have to grind a whole 300m for some skills? It's disingenuous at best to suggest both at the same time.

I'm getting a headache from rolling my eyes so much.

Mr Epeen

You've always had a cool head and a sound mind.

Yes, more of us should strive to have this attitude.

I'm not confused. I am disgusted. The most vocal opponents' arguments boil down to a nebulous feeling of dislike which are utterly refuted in the context of a thriving Character Bazaar.

There are strong reasons to go ahead with the idea, not least of which is the prospect of increased revenue for CCP.