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Harbinger Set Up

Author
Lunatic Shine
Relentl.us
#1 - 2011-12-11 16:17:15 UTC
Hello to everyone!

I managed after a while to buy my first BattleCruiser (Had some doubts for the Harbinger since I'm a design freak:P).
Now it's time for fitting.

When it was time to start training for a BC, I contacted the forums and got this fitiing (to which I based my training queue):

Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

I've bought everything in this list except from the Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive and the Heavy Pulse Laser II. And that cause I got some questions:

Why Heavy Pulse Laser II and not Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II?
Or why Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive and not some kind of Afterburner?
Is it cause of the fitting cost or skills, or I cannot run a stable Harb with those on it?!

Lets say that I am a NOOB at EVE (Only 9mil+ SP so far), so I'm not able to judge everything correctly (yet), so plz help :)

Thanks for your time!

PS: Since we are talking for Harbinger, what kind of drones you suggest?!
PS2: I'm a mission runner and with ship the goal is to start my LVL3 missions.
Idicious Lightbane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-11 16:32:31 UTC
The Heavy Pulse Laser II's are the largest size medium pulse laser, Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II's are battleship size guns which won't fit on a Battlecruiser.

As far as the MWD goes it gives a larger speed boost than the Afterburner, you won't be able to run it with your cap stable but you generally pulse it to either pull range or close on something quickly and then shut it off again.
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#3 - 2011-12-11 16:42:57 UTC
Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II are battleship sized guns, so won't fit on the Harby.

The MWD was probably recommended over an afterburner, to compensate for the pulses lack of range. However, even when not in use MWDs reduce your total capacitor capacity, a serious concern flying laser boats. If possible (don't have eft to hand atm) I'd stick a 10MN afterburner, 2 tracking computers (and carry 2 of each script) and a cap booster (and carry cap booster charges). The tracking computers with range scripts in, plus scorch ammo, should you give good reach.

Drones, hobgoblins are the best all rounders. Acolytes, the Amarr ones, are rubbish.

And a couple of final points;
Never expect to get a cap stable laser boat. If you have a cap stable laser boat, you've probably left something important off.
Amarr ships don't really shine with low SP. So if you find yourself struggling, just stick with it. It gets better, honest.
Kaanchana
Tax-haven
#4 - 2011-12-11 16:44:59 UTC
Also use gallant drones always, hobglobins and hammerheads. they do therm damage and are quite suitable for all the missions you can do.

Always pulse your MWD to get in range and then shut it off again. It will quickly eat up your cap and in a laser boat that means you have to warp out and back again.

Pulse lasers do more damage but beam lasers are more comfortable to mission with due to their high optimals. I'd suggest you to use beams since u'll go for the apoc next and it goes well with beams.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-11 17:36:38 UTC
Kaanchana wrote:

Pulse lasers do more damage but beam lasers are more comfortable to mission with due to their high optimals. I'd suggest you to use beams since u'll go for the apoc next and it goes well with beams.


As long as you don't have tech 2 pulses, use beams.
Lili Lu
#6 - 2011-12-11 17:51:07 UTC
Welcome to EVE and Amarr ships. It's not one of the easiest paths as a noob. Cap is always an issue. It appears you have trained tech II medium pulses so at least your tracking is skilled up. Even though you have tech II pulses you might want to experiment with beams.

Generally, as an Amarr flying new player one must train all cap skills to 4, and controlled bursts to 4. At some point you'll want 5 in all these. Also, don't overlook the navigation skills, because I suggest using an afterburner instead of a mwd. For each level of afterburner and fuel conservation you are reducing the cap pull from operating the afterburner(which doesn't need to be on full-time anyway but when it is on it's nice to have cap last more). Also, it may be a pain, but train weapons upgrades to 5 and then start on advanced weapons upgrades. I suggest this because I suggest using beams, and they are grid heavy.

Yes, scorch is great stuff and pulses do great damage. But for me I figured why pay for ammo, and why run around chasing the rats when they are happy to come to you once you start shooting them ("Mr. pc please stay there while I motor into your better damage lens ranges"P). I always approached missions as warp in, figure where to align (important to have something ready to warp to if tank failing or for those in low sec needing to gtfo from a gank). And then kite the rats and kill most at range. For this you need beams. For the Harby, once you have trained up engineering to max and some AWU you will be able to fit a MAR II, ab, and 7 Heavy Modulated beams. Modulated are the meta 4, they use the least cap, do the most damage, and have the most range. Until your fitting skills are up you may have to mix your fit with heavy beams and focused beams.

Once I start the pull and kite the rats, I usually start with the frigs, as they are the ones that can get you killed with scramming, or often the ones hitting you with ewar. Then I go up in ship class from there. Of course that progression will change if I am avoiding a trigger or managing aggro per the particular mission design (use the eve-survival mission guides). The great thing about Beams is you usually have enough range to hit in level 3s no matter where the rats are (although you might have to start firing with radio). And with lasers it's no big deal to dial new higher damage lens into place as the optimal becomes shorter as the rats keep getting closer asking for more radiation and heat.

My typical setup was (and still is):

7 Heavy modulated beams, drone link augmentor (you can send drone damage farther out)

Y- (meta 4 10mn) ab, tracking computer with range script (optimal needed against sansha td, while the tactic is already reducing the tracking problem), and then 2 cap recharger II (if blood raiders I mix up the mids to fit a small or medium cap injector)(if serpentis then a sensor booster with range script)

DC II (suitcase for unexpected disconnect, or distraction leading to messed up triggers and warping out in hull), MAR II, 1 or 2 HS, 2 or 3 hardener II or membrane II

AuxNanoPump, CCC x 2

3 Hammer II, 4 hobogblin II

This worked great for me. As my skills got better I changed some things depending on the mission, like using pulses for missions where rats were right on top of me at warp in.

Finally, while a Harby is a great level 3 against Sansha, Drones, Blood Raiders, and also somewhat against Mercs and Serps. It is not good against Gurista or Angels. I actually suggest training projectiles and fitting them to a Prophecy. And, really the better option, training a second race of ships to use against those rats. Any of the other 3 do them better, Gallente drone boats, Caldari missile boats, or Minmatar shield tanker and projectile. It's up to you which race to crosstrain into. To discuss the pluses and minuses of each path would be for another thread.Smile
Lunatic Shine
Relentl.us
#7 - 2011-12-11 20:00:14 UTC
WoW!

Alot of info to proccess!

I didnt knew for the Dual Pulse Lasers. Very good to know cause I was ready to buy them all :P
If I go with Pulse Lasers, Multifrequency M is good? I know that you changed compared to what you have on the opposite side, but I see that it Also uses Advanced Pulse Laser Crystals.

I know that is near to impossible to have a stable cap with Lasers and Amarr ships. The ship I was using so far was a Maller and the only thing I could do in big missions was to wrap out after some waves cause my Cap was near to deplete. Ofc I didnt had anything on at once. My afterburner was opened only in specific situations and my Armor Repairer (I hate it since it's the biggest Cap Drainer I have seen so far).

As for the alt Race Lili, I am thinking after I finish all the needed training, I will go for Gallente. Honestly, I like the Gallente Battleships more :P
Lunatic Shine
Relentl.us
#8 - 2011-12-11 20:09:41 UTC
It seams that I cannot run a Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive since it needs 50 CPU to go online and i have only 40.8 avaliable.

What should I do? Go for a Afterburner (which one) or train some skill to make the Y-T8 to fit (if there is any)?
Jhagiti Tyran
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-12-11 20:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran
As posted above beam lasers are better than pulse lasers until you can use T2 pulse lasers,


[Harbinger, T1 Beams]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

10MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin I x5

Try this, the meta 4 lasers might be a bit spendy so you might need to downgrade them. Use the turrets on Cruisers and frigs that are far away and use the drones to chew up any frigs that get under your tracking, the afterburner is mainly for moving around from gate to gate inside the mission. Use the appropriate rat specific hardeners.
Pappy McGee
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-11 20:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Pappy McGee
I would recommend afterburner over microwarpdrive, especially if you're still figuring things out. 1000 m/s is absolutely unnecessary for missioning level 3s, and the afterburner will free up a huge amount of capacitor and still go fast enough to get you where you need to be. (In fact, it could be argued that it's just as effective, if not more so, as you'll be able to keep the afterburner running nonstop, as oppose to pulsing your microwarp drive whenever it's needed.)

Then again, I've generally advocated skipping level 3s entirely as a waste of time. 9 million skillpoints is more than enough to jump into an apocalypse and start running 4s; ignore any elitists telling you not to jump into a ship until you have every support skill trained fully. They're just jealous that they didn't have the balls/intelligence to do it right when they had the chance. Sure, you won't be able to run an optimal battleship right now, but even an entirely tech 1 fitted battleship will net you far more money than any harbinger running level 3s.

Use that harbinger to grind level 2s for standing, and ditch it afterward.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#11 - 2011-12-12 13:59:22 UTC
^that, cept i wouldn't ditch the harbi after grinding, keep it for poo and giggles and other instances of grinding

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