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"Heir" Khanid selects Sani Sabik champion

Author
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#1 - 2015-10-16 21:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Not two months since having been given the great gift of forgiveness and the opportunity to compete for the Imperial Throne and "His Royal Highness" already paints it in sin.

http://i.imgur.com/dywTCS5.png
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6059806#post6059806
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103754#post6103754

Khanid gave up his claim to the throne when he rebelled against God's Holy Empire. Now he calls blood raiders his champions. Are we to replace the Red Chamberlain with a Red Emperor?


And they stood before Him,
bathed in His light.
Yet their eyes were blind,
Their hearts rebellious,
And their minds refused the Lord.
Darkness descended upon them,
Spreading inside their minds,
And the flames of the Lord died within them.

- Gheinok the First 1:13
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-10-16 22:17:40 UTC
I voted for Nauplius.
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-10-16 22:22:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Lord Kailethre
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#4 - 2015-10-17 06:54:32 UTC
Have faith Lieutenant, God will see the true heir upon the throne and not this pretender.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2015-10-17 07:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Lord Kailethre wrote:
Have faith Lieutenant, God will see the true heir upon the throne and not this pretender.


Well, technically, putting him on the throne could be the best way to put the Empire through... many hardships.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-10-17 09:05:37 UTC
Political differences are one thing, even outright sedition. Sanist heresies are completely different and much worse.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#7 - 2015-10-17 19:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms.
Now you continue to call someone who was legally chosen by your own body of government to have the chance to succeed Jamyl a heretic and question his choices?

Maybe I don't understand your religion, but right now it seems to me that you expect God's plan to be by popular opinion.

Maybe YOU don't understand your religion, claiming to somehow have insight into the mind of an unfathomable being. Perhaps you are wrong, and there is some purpose behind the choice of a "heretic" whether it be redemption or additional punishment.

Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions.
Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale.


I'm not an expert on your government, but I was under the impression that criticizing the Theology council and heirs was not something you should do. There's some reason for what they do, and, by your own admission the victor of the championship is willed by god, so how can the choices of champion not be?
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-10-17 19:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-10-17 20:15:50 UTC

Xindi Kraid wrote:
Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms.

Jamyl was resurrected. We suggest you keep your baseless off-topic theorycrafting to the sovereign of your own nation.

Unless you think you can teach us, the Amarr, something about God and His plan?

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#10 - 2015-10-17 20:25:20 UTC
Everyone in this thread has been resurrected.
You cannot dispute these facts:
Jamyl Sarum was a capsuleer.
She died in her pod
She later returned seemingly no worse for the wear.

There's a logical explanation for that, but you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts. Why is Jamyl not being a clone mandatory for her ascension to be in God's plan? God can't make exceptions? Or maybe the Sacred Flesh doctrine itself was in error.


Maybe you are similarly in error for questioning a single choice by a single heir when it's obvious that faith didn't weigh much if at all into the selection process.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2015-10-17 20:31:37 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms.
Now you continue to call someone who was legally chosen by your own body of government to have the chance to succeed Jamyl a heretic and question his choices?

Maybe I don't understand your religion, but right now it seems to me that you expect God's plan to be by popular opinion.

Maybe YOU don't understand your religion, claiming to somehow have insight into the mind of an unfathomable being. Perhaps you are wrong, and there is some purpose behind the choice of a "heretic" whether it be redemption or additional punishment.

Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions.
Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale.


I'm not an expert on your government, but I was under the impression that criticizing the Theology council and heirs was not something you should do. There's some reason for what they do, and, by your own admission the victor of the championship is willed by god, so how can the choices of champion not be?


As far as I know the TC only stated that her return was a miracle. Some choose to envision resurrection, others choose to take it for what Occam's Razor suggests it is.
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#12 - 2015-10-17 20:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Everyone in this thread has been resurrected.
You cannot dispute these facts:
Jamyl Sarum was a capsuleer.
She died in her pod
She later returned seemingly no worse for the wear.

There's a logical explanation for that, but you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts. Why is Jamyl not being a clone mandatory for her ascension to be in God's plan? God can't make exceptions? Or maybe the Sacred Flesh doctrine itself was in error.


Maybe you are similarly in error for questioning a single choice by a single heir when it's obvious that faith didn't weigh much if at all into the selection process.


And why is a loyalist Caldari corp member, an ostensible Ally picking a fight with the Faithful Amarr from, as far as I can tell, completely out of the blue when the subject of the thread is King Khanid's selection of a known Blood Raider as a champion? Respectfully, Miss Priano, you need to cut back on the coffee in IKAME's break room.
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-10-17 21:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Del.
Here there was a text. Cry

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Utari Onzo
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2015-10-17 21:11:01 UTC
Mr Kraid, a little education for you.

God does not direct and put His hand into every little thing that goes on in the Universe. He is not a micromanaging supervisor at the Helm of the Universe. He is more like a caretaker, He has created the foundations of the Universe, and desires us to follow His plan. He created free will to allow us to explore, and discover, all of the wonders of His creation through science, philosophy and faith.

As part of the price of creating free will, there is indeed a chance for Man to fail in His plan, and in the case of Champion selection this act might very well cost His Royal Highness in the long run if the accusations are true, both in the material sense and in the spiritual. It is on each Heir and their Champion to earn God's grace and favour. They must demonstrate their fervour, their faith and skill before Him. God is both generous, and stern, He does not give of gifts freely, so only the most worthy Champion and Heir will in the end be granted the blessing of God. This is called a Trial after all, we're not weak limbed children begging to God for mercy and guidance, but instead demonstrating strength and allowing Him to pick of the best.

In regards to Jamyl's return, this was one of those times that God himself felt compelled to act. With corruption in the very heart of the Empire, and the arrival of the Elder Fleet, God decided to bestow upon His faithful a gift in the form of our Empress' return. You don't believe and feel our faith, but we very much do, so your comments about absolutes and facts are irrelevant when you don't take that into account. Belief in miracles and divine wrath is fact in our eyes when the signs are there.

Finally, in regards to your 'choice' comments, I have to agree with Mrs Daphiti that it seems some Caldari pilots can be overly eager to chip in their point of view on our Empire. Faith plays a huge and crucial role in the Governing of the Amarr (this being that all peoples of the Empire are Amarr by term, the difference being True Amarr are True by blood and history and only they have the True title.) You might not like this, get this, understand this, but your arguments will hold absolutely no sway with us if you don't address this simple fact. Faith is the centre of everything we do.

While I understand this forum is public and open to all to reply, sometimes I feel it would be in the best interest of Caldari allies to not keep mocking us so publically and on topics damn well important to us when it comes to our late Empress and the means by which we'll be provided a new ruler. I get everyone wants to chip in about the issue on slavery, but this particular topic is to do with our Government. Would you kindly show some respect, fair allies?

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#15 - 2015-10-17 21:15:00 UTC
So, because we're allies I should toe the Amarr line? I am an ally of the Amarr people, I am not, however and Amarr; my compliance with your edicts is not necessary, just as your compliance with Caldari edicts is not necessary.
I wasn't picking a fight, I am trying to understand what the problem is, and why there is so much flip flop between heretic and God willed it all the time. I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions.

Many of the champions are also "allies" rather than faithful, and yet because of a single pick, you are now second guessing the vetting process for picking someone who met all of the requirements.

I also noticed the quotes around the word 'heir' in the title which indicates that you don't accept the rulings of your own government, and I was under the impression that, to the Amarr, sedition and heresy were more or less the same thing since questioning the government is to also question god.

Have I missed something somewhere?
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2015-10-17 21:20:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms.

Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions.
Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale.



It's more because you came out of "left field" as the saying goes to immediately and directly attack manifold aspects of the Faith, close to the hearts of the Faithful, without provocation or necessity. Because I value the Society's relationship with IKAME I shall hush for now and refer you to Utari Onzo's capable response. I also urge Ms. Priano to finish her posting guidelines for IKAME before yet another diplomatic incident unfolds.
Utari Onzo
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2015-10-17 21:25:56 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
So, because we're allies I should toe the Amarr line? I am an ally of the Amarr people, I am not, however and Amarr; my compliance with your edicts is not necessary, just as your compliance with Caldari edicts is not necessary.
I wasn't picking a fight, I am trying to understand what the problem is, and why there is so much flip flop between heretic and God willed it all the time. I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions.

Many of the champions are also "allies" rather than faithful, and yet because of a single pick, you are now second guessing the vetting process for picking someone who met all of the requirements.

I also noticed the quotes around the word 'heir' in the title which indicates that you don't accept the rulings of your own government, and I was under the impression that, to the Amarr, sedition and heresy were more or less the same thing since questioning the government is to also question god.

Have I missed something somewhere?



Mr Kraid, for someone seeking understanding, you certainatly came in with an aggressive matter of fact statement on what the 'fact' of the situation was, rather then trying to be reasonable in engaging in debate. You presented what you felt was the 'correct' stance, and challenged us for having faith. That's not trying to understand, that's mockery.

In regards to the denouncement of the Heir and potential Champion, I am not taking a stance on it myself, so I will leave it to others to do so until a formal judgement on the matter is made, if one really is. I was presenting what the consequence could be if it's true, so I hope that much atleast will satisfy until someone else can explain further.

Finally, I already outlined God does not will absolutely everything. It's the price of free will, the thing that raises Humanity above beasts. If He truly willed absolutely everything, the Universe would be perfect, but we would never learn. We must be allowed to make mistakes, and be punished for them, so that we learn much as a child does.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#18 - 2015-10-17 21:26:54 UTC
I am pleased with this news.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#19 - 2015-10-17 21:30:25 UTC
With due respect, Mr. Kraid, let's withdraw a bit on this subject. While on one hand they should not expect us to agree with their worldview or understand it wholly, and should not be too dismayed when we approach matters with a mind to inquiry, we should similarly not attempt to foist our world view on them. Imagine, if you will, if a member of the Intaki Liberation Front pointedly inquired about and seemed dismissive of an aspect of Caldari culture; would you not be frustrated as well?

That on some matters (such as the Empress Jamyl's return) this may be a bit mind-boggling, well... we just have to accept that.

In this instance, though, I will say this: I do find Lieutenant Kernher's reaction understandable in one part, and curious in another. On one hand, an imperial heir selecting an overt Blood Raider who has engaged in ritual sacrifice is something that warrants inquiry; on the other hand, her seeming refusal to accept the Theology Council's decision that King Khanid II is indeed an imperial heir seems curious.

However, I'm an outsider, so in this matter I'll abstain from further comment.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-10-17 21:34:48 UTC
Well, Blood Raiders are somewhat... scary persons.
Maybe it was a PR move to inflict fear to contestants? In the mood of "Yarr! After I defeat you, I'll drink blood from your liver!"

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

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