These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[December] Navy EWar Frigates

First post
Author
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#341 - 2015-12-04 12:25:30 UTC
Torei Dutalis wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
The Navy Maulus and the Fleet Vigil are too hard to counter because of the range bonus to tackle, they'll push everything else out of the solo meta.


You do realize that the vigil only projects 200~ dps to 8.4km right? The web bonus is effectively wasted when using this ship solo. The dps on the navy maulus is really about the same as you would get from a tristan, its just tankier. You also have to keep in mind that this ship only has a base speed of 315 m/s which is really slow. Ships like the worm (post nerf) are still way way way more threatening than these ships will ever be. Rail comets (and all comets really) will still be a complete menace to novice plexes after these ships come out. There's no doubt that ships with range bonuses to tackle mods are strong ships, but you have to look at the whole ship to really come to a conclusion on balance.


vigil: just fit range rigs and you hit out to 15.5km with rage or 23km with javelins.

maulus: I've flown tristans a lot which are about the same speed, and I actually used a mwd scram fit anyway but I've caught far faster ships just with manual piloting, and if i don't get them in the first pass 9 times out of 10 I can bug out unless they're linked.

The Rail comet will probably push them off, same with a cormorant or arty thrasher or any other long range ship with better dps/ehp ratio but they won't kill them unless the maulus/vigil pilot makes a big mistake. Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - ***and kill them***
Arla Sarain
#342 - 2015-12-04 18:14:14 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - ***and kill them***

No.

Gallente supremacy is protected by plot armor. Lore demands it.
Torei Dutalis
IceBox Inc.
Rogue Caldari Union
#343 - 2015-12-04 18:27:01 UTC
Not that any of this matters now that the patch notes are posted....but.

Fourteen Maken wrote:

15.5km with rage


Did you mean to say faction?

Fourteen Maken wrote:

I actually used a mwd scram fit


Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard)

Fourteen Maken wrote:

I've caught far faster ships just with manual piloting


The fact that you know what slingshotting is and your opponents don't has no bearing on the efficacy of these ships. If you are implying that the navy maulus will be better at catching mwd frigs than the tristan, then yes, I agree. However, by your logic, if I was a good pilot I wouldn't fight your navy maulus in the first place.

Fourteen Maken wrote:

The Rail comet will probably push them off, same with a cormorant or arty thrasher or any other long range ship with better dps/ehp ratio but they won't kill them unless the maulus/vigil pilot makes a big mistake. Can someone please name a few solo ships I can use to actually go hunt these - ***and kill them***


Oh look, you just did name several ships (lets not forget the other suggestions from earlier in the thread that will also beat them to a pulp). Yes, in a world where you run away from anything that has a halfway decent chance of killing you, I'm sure these ships are invincible, but so is my t1 laser vigil when I go ibis hunting.

I think everyone agrees these two ships are strong, but I disagree that they are unbeatable solopwnmobiles which will destroy the FW meta. By your own admission these ships have a hard time beating several highly prolific ships in the current meta. Perhaps the real question we should be asking here is whether faction frigates should be allowed into novices.



Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#344 - 2015-12-05 01:22:54 UTC
ooooohhh .... I think I heard my Hyena cry a little. But that's allright my little one - we shall show these bastards what we're made of.
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2015-12-05 02:58:46 UTC
The Navy Maulus is sexytime.

All Navy ships are great.

It is about time FW got this kind of boost.

Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile.
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#346 - 2015-12-05 06:37:02 UTC
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
The Navy Maulus is sexytime.

All Navy ships are great.

It is about time FW got this kind of boost.

Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile.


*WARNING* *BUTTHURT INCOMING*

Join Amarr millitia then, enjoy our great LP shop, and great golden ships, esp new great blaster (1/2 gallente) punisher, (100% amarr) subpar t2 friglogi, and even worse (100% amarr) ewar CNI.

Welcome to Gallspaceship online, a game, if you have at least gallente in the ships prereq, you rock.

-atron, maulus, comet, kheres, algos/cata, vexor navy, celestis, ishtar, gila, orthrus, bruti, myrm, domi, vigilant, vindi, moros.... ouch, they considerd *BEST* of the line!

and compae to:
-puni, exec, cruxi, omen, zeal, arbi, harbi, apoc, 'baddon, rev... considerd *WORST* of the line!
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#347 - 2015-12-05 08:00:34 UTC
Mad Abbat wrote:
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
The Navy Maulus is sexytime.

All Navy ships are great.

It is about time FW got this kind of boost.

Having these ships available for LP will make plexing much more worthwhile.


*WARNING* *BUTTHURT INCOMING*

Join Amarr millitia then, enjoy our great LP shop, and great golden ships, esp new great blaster (1/2 gallente) punisher, (100% amarr) subpar t2 friglogi, and even worse (100% amarr) ewar CNI.

Welcome to Gallspaceship online, a game, if you have at least gallente in the ships prereq, you rock.

-atron, maulus, comet, kheres, algos/cata, vexor navy, celestis, ishtar, gila, orthrus, bruti, myrm, domi, vigilant, vindi, moros.... ouch, they considerd *BEST* of the line!

and compae to:
-puni, exec, cruxi, omen, zeal, arbi, harbi, apoc, 'baddon, rev... considerd *WORST* of the line!


Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved.
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#348 - 2015-12-05 10:36:39 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:

Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved.


Or you can just stop being blind/simple. Problem solved.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#349 - 2015-12-05 12:46:04 UTC
Mad Abbat wrote:
Morgan Agrivar wrote:

Or you can just learn to fly all of them. Problem solved.


Or you can just stop being blind/simple. Problem solved.

Or you can just stop complaining. Problem solved.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#350 - 2015-12-05 15:47:50 UTC
Torei Dutalis wrote:


Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard)





how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with?

yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store?
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#351 - 2015-12-05 16:42:22 UTC
It seems to me the sansha ships with the AB boost would be ok. Worm probably tunes them up pretty good too.

Anything with decent long range projection, like light missiles or maybe beams would make itself felt.

Pinning them will be hard since long range points is what it does, and people do love their mwd, but it's not that hard to keep up with and a disruptor would keep it from disengaging once you are past it's scream range. A narrow window to be sure, but it's there.
SoulLess Zealot
Khaedra's Law
#352 - 2015-12-07 04:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: SoulLess Zealot
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Torei Dutalis wrote:


Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard)





how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with?


i think your getting stuck in your own imaginings of what reality will be without getting creative inventive or realistic. there are a multitude of ships and fits that can do this .. and if you want one example i promise i can tackle it in a slasher ..

Fourteen Maken wrote:
Torei Dutalis wrote:



yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store?



this is really the same question.


just wanted to say there is a rut in this thread that seems to have a bunch of heads stuck in it ...maybe we should just bury it and start a new thread say this time next week after all is said and done on TQ
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#353 - 2015-12-07 16:47:26 UTC
SoulLess Zealot wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Torei Dutalis wrote:


Are you implying that you will do something similar with the navy maulus? If so, you autolose to scramkite ships, kind of like I was indicating in my previous post. (also supported by your killboard)





how will i autolose to scram kite ships when i have 50% range bonus on my scrams and they dont'? when i can use my mwd and they have an ab how are they going to get me in their scram range to begin with?


i think your getting stuck in your own imaginings of what reality will be without getting creative inventive or realistic. there are a multitude of ships and fits that can do this .. and if you want one example i promise i can tackle it in a slasher ..

Fourteen Maken wrote:
Torei Dutalis wrote:



yes i already said the rail comet is one ship that could push them off but that's not what im asking for, im asking people to name affordable ships i can use to actually pin them down and kill them. I'm not interested in just chasing them out of plexes... and what does it say when one of the only counters is also from the galmil lp store?



this is really the same question.


just wanted to say there is a rut in this thread that seems to have a bunch of heads stuck in it ...maybe we should just bury it and start a new thread say this time next week after all is said and done on TQ


I asked an honest question, how to solo a vigil or maulus because that's what I'm trying to figure out. Mike Voidstar is right, mwd and long point on a ship with better dps/tank and enough speed to keep up is the best tactic, a worm would be perfect i think, possibly a few others like custom fit combat interceptors, maybe even a punnisher now

but slasher... how?
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#354 - 2015-12-07 18:48:58 UTC
Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#355 - 2015-12-07 19:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Templar Dane
Estella Osoka wrote:
Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships.


And that's how the navy crucifier being bad is somehow okay?

It may be ****, but at least you can train up and fly one of the other ships.

The biggest kick in the junk is the TD range penalty. It makes about at much sense as giving the navy vigil a web range bonus and then an 85% penalty to web strength.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#356 - 2015-12-07 20:51:06 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships.


After I finish with my perfect subcap gunnery skills, spaceship command is next so I am not limited in what I can fly in PvP. This is sound advice.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#357 - 2015-12-07 22:05:01 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Certain ships are just not viable against others in PVP. That's why you make sure you don't limit your self to one set of ships.


And that's how the navy crucifier being bad is somehow okay?

It may be ****, but at least you can train up and fly one of the other ships.

The biggest kick in the junk is the TD range penalty. It makes about at much sense as giving the navy vigil a web range bonus and then an 85% penalty to web strength.


Against ships with rockets it will be able scramkite like a god.
Pestilen Ratte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2015-12-09 00:14:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pestilen Ratte
Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists.

It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return.

It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic.

Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point.

Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP.

I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks.

Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered.

This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why.

My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor.

We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality.

So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left.

Why did he win?

The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems.

Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels.

So how did he win?

The answer is pretty simple.

A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT.

I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process.

Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU?

Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line.

In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to:

1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed.

2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system.

3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range.

4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him.

In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists.

Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own.

One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats.

I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy.

But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!!

If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder.

The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire.
Neph
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#359 - 2015-12-09 08:19:23 UTC
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists.

It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return.

It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic.

Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point.

Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP.

I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks.

Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered.

This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why.

My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor.

We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality.

So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left.

Why did he win?

The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems.

Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels.

So how did he win?

The answer is pretty simple.

A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT.

I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process.

Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU?

Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line.

In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to:

1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed.

2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system.

3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range.

4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him.

In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists.

Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own.

One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats.

I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy.

But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!!

If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder.

The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire.


******* +1

~ Gariushi YC110 // Midular YC115 // Yanala YC115 ~

"Orte Jaitovalte sitasuyti ne obuetsa useuut ishu. Ketsiak ishiulyn." -Yakiya Tovil-Toba-taisoka

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#360 - 2015-12-09 20:11:29 UTC
Pestilen Ratte wrote:
Firstly, we can all note that this update contains a lot of work. Real work, by engineers and artists.

It doesn't matter if the changes are good, bad or ugly. We pay our subscriptions and we get work from CCP folks in return.

It is a good deal, getting real work for money, so thanks to the CCP team and congrats on having the work ethic.

Second, I hate to say it but the Amarr folks have a legitimate and important point.

Drone boats, and therefore the majority of the Gallente line, are OP.

I say that as a Gallente pilot who flies drone boats and loves them very much. But I like balance better, and I respect the case made by the Amarr folks.

Another way of talking about this issue is to say that Gallente boats are just right, and that turret based weapons systems are under powered.

This is my preferred view, and please bear with me as I explain why.

My last fight was a good one. I was flying an Exeq Navy Issue (cheap blaster boat from hell) with a gank and moderate hull tank fit, and the other guy was flying a stock vexor.

We both had combat SP of around the same levels. It was a pure 1v1 fight, no OGB to my knowledge. We chatted afterwards and the guy has a solid combat pilot mentality.

So he won, and he won handsomely. By the time my hull popped, he still had about 25% armour left.

Why did he win?

The navy issue exeq has 750 dps cold, on paper. It has a fine hull tank. On paper, if it closes range and grabs its enemy, it should melt it real fast. If it gets kited, it has big problems.

Here is the thing: I grabbed him. I closed range right away. I spent the WHOLE FIGHT in range of my guns, with web and scram on him, and I was fitted with dual damage mods and a tracking mod. I went lightish on the hull tank to keep the DPS at face raping levels.

So how did he win?

The answer is pretty simple.

A drone boat does not need to spend power grid on weapons systems, and so it can use the power grid for tank (both speed tank and EHP). Furthermore, drones are faster than most ships and they apply damage over a 50km envelope with NO PILOT INPUT.

I really have to stress that last point. Drones can apply THE SAME damage over a 50Km range with no pilot input. They get to do this and save huge power grid in the process.

Did I mention that you can change your damage type and size instantly, with NO cost to power grid or CPU?

Now look at turret based ships, like the navy issue exeq or the ammar line.

In order to apply damage with turrets, you need to:

1. Use tech 2 ammo with reduced DPS. This is mandatory in order to get a damage application envelope that will keep hitting something that is moderately kitey and not doubled webbed and scrammed.

2. Fit for speed and agility, so that you can pilot so that your DPS actually hits the enemy. Don't worry that this precludes having large armour tanks. You didn't have the powergrid anyway, because you needed that to use your weapon system.

3. Hope that you don't get capped out. Yeah, those blasters and lasers need cap. Unlike drones. So if your enemy has spare top slots and powergrid, maybe because he doesn't mneed them for his weapons system, he might want to neut you and turn off all your weapons. Now, you might fly out of cap range or fit mid slot cap war resist modules, but this will drop your potential DPS and reduce your ability to dictate range.

4. Concentrate on manual piloting. If you want to apply DPS with turrets, you are going to have to learn how to fly. If you just orbit or keep range, your applied DPS is going to drop by half, at best. So, while you arte concentrating on flying to apply DPS, the happy drone boat pilot can concentrate on mitigating DPS. By kiting, by flying to increase transversal, by using all his spare slots and powergrid to tank it up. All he has to do is dodge your theoretical dps until his drones wear you down. And they will, because you can't fly to kite them, or your guns start missing. You can use your web to kill his drones, but he has plenty more and will escape you because you took your web off him.

In other words, turrets get good applied DPS..... never. You work like a cattle dog just to get moderate applied DPS. And you damage type is restricted, so you face huge resists.

Drones, by contrast, get fantastic DPS if the other pilot is preoccupied with, say trying to apply damage of this own.

One way to fix this imbalance would be to nerf drone boats. The other way would be to massively boost the theorectical DPS, and thus the applied DPS, on brawling turret boats.

I don't mind flying a blaster boat weapon platform that will die if it gets kited and needs some pilot skills to grab and hold the enemy.

But it is absurd to fly an advanced navy blaster platform, to engage and grab the enemy, to dictate range, to apply damage the whole fight, and to then lose anyway. By a lot. To an inferior tech one hull!!

If a specialized brawler gets a hold of you, it really should be your ass. Otherwise it isn't a brawler. It is just drone fodder.

The understanding in the player base, across all race profiles, must be, if your drone boat gets grabbed by a specialist short range turret platform, you will most probably die in a hail of fire.


And you didn't kill off his drones because....?