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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Kazikings
Exit Plan
Beanstalk Inc.
#81 - 2015-10-15 15:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazikings
Please dont make this EVER happen!

My personal arguments and reasons against this are

Attention This removes or softens up one unique aspect of EVE: Your decissions regarding skilling have consequences forever

Attention One more uniqueness and difference compared to most other MMOs is removed

Attention You are going to soften EVE even more up, taking more and more from its dark and harsh flair and appearance

Attention Implementing this means a softcore version of a skillpoint respecc designed as RMT with obvious implications

Attention This change will prevent some people from carefully planning their skills and make characters more even and straightforward

Attention Long term planning and finally getting a long skill to V is a memorable and fond moment and should not be buyabe for AUR, neither for ISK

QuestionOh god WHY? Simply: DONT do this!
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2015-10-15 15:59:00 UTC  |  Edited by: virm pasuul
As someone who's reaction to this was negative, can anyone clearly express logically not emotionally why this is a bad idea please?

Anything that can currently be bought for ISK can be bought by extension for RL cash via PLEX.
e.g. in a previous post, almost any ship can be bought for ISK, if you have enough ISK, so aren't ship already for sale for real life money?
As long as CCP doesn't make new special edition ships out of thin air and sell them for RL cash, what's the difference?

This would put skill points in the same bucket, and most importantly they would be player created skill points on the player to player market, not CCP out of thin air skill points.
Joseph Dewald
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2015-10-15 15:59:19 UTC
So what I'm hearing is that training is now almost worthless and instead I should be grinding for isk? Not a fan of this idea. If you really want to implement some sort of respec idea, make it so that you can't sell the sp and can only apply them to your own character.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#84 - 2015-10-15 15:59:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Querns wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Querns wrote:
They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.

Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.

They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game.

Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it.

Then plug your ears and block my posts. I do not see CCP being capable of working on multiple things at once without compromising all they work on with lots of detrimental effects. They were not capable of developing Dust besides of EVE, they were not capable of developing Sov properly while working on what? Gunjack? And went on vacation directly after the release. They left the industry part unfinished because they needed to work on sov. The list goes on and on and on.

But yes, CCP's dev time is not fungible and they themselves time and again stress that things are expensive in terms of dev time. Yet, CCP wastes their dev time on SKINs, wastes their dev time on this garbage, wasts it on what not mobile while the main game they have needs so many fixes, they'd be busy for another decade just to fix the bugs and broken things before introducing new content. And they waste their not fungible dev time on things that do not improve the game itself, but only introduce more ways to grab money. You may not want to hear that anymore, but if you are fed up of it, then do something against it.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2015-10-15 15:59:33 UTC
Cynthia Aishai wrote:
worst idea ever

even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change

Jump fatigue was an amazing change so you picked a bad analogy.
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#86 - 2015-10-15 15:59:43 UTC
A very bad idea.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#87 - 2015-10-15 15:59:47 UTC
Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote:
Querns wrote:

They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.

Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.


Oh, but people will do that. If your character has less than 80M skill points, 5:2 SP ratio nothing to sneeze at.
Assuming you get an account running +4s on an ideal remap, it takes just under 8 days to generate the required 500000 SP. If you have 8 accounts running, your character essentially can get 200000 more SP every day, compared to only 62640 your get with +4s and an ideal remap. More than 3 times the amount.

If this is not pay-to-win, I don't know what is.

Why would you do this when you can just buy the skill packets hot off the market?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Trinity Windu
Imperial Commandos
#88 - 2015-10-15 15:59:59 UTC
Bad news bears
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#89 - 2015-10-15 16:00:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
CCP Logibro wrote:
[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img]
The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside.


Make sure the unallocated skillpoints are taken into account as the overall number of skill points, to avoid exploit where have low SP to begin with, and then pump your head full of unallocated skillpoints without deminishing return.

I look forward to extracting my old mining skills.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Scorpio DK
Doomheim
#90 - 2015-10-15 16:00:47 UTC
ok my initial reaction was terrible idea

if you are going to bring out something like this then i recommend changing it a bit

restrict it to only the character using the item removed any ability to sell skill points on the market

example would be i have some skills i don't want i can use one of these to remove the skill and points and make them un-allocated but only to that character with no way to trade it so i can trade 500k of my current skill points for 50k un-allocated skill points but never trade it to another character.

i would also build in a hard cap per month of skill points you can swap over



Syphon Cursion
Nameofthrones
#91 - 2015-10-15 16:01:08 UTC
Stupid idea just shoot ccps wallet in the face ull lose all your people asap
Kazikings
Exit Plan
Beanstalk Inc.
#92 - 2015-10-15 16:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazikings
-double post-
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#93 - 2015-10-15 16:01:51 UTC
When I saw the devblog, I chuckeld and was 110% sure I was linked to somekind of a troll site that just looked like the real deal.

Then the reality set it and I just sat here in utter confusion with my mouth gaping for a few minutes...

How can you possibly think this is a good idea? I was under the impression this team wasn't completely disconnected from reality and had some kind of an idea on what kind of ideas might be usable.

This kind of looks like a desperate cash grab. "Figure out something that makes people consume more PLEX and make it fast". This makes me think the TQ server upgrades are actually a huge marketing gamble, tossing a coin in the hopes that people think EVE is doing OK financially and start playing again.

I WANTED TO BELIEVE! Now I'm lost again...

I would love to see every CSM member reply to this thread with their opinion publically. Then I would like to see CCP's explanation as to why CSM members opposing this idea (I'm guessing the vast majority) have been ignored.
Robnik Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-10-15 16:01:56 UTC
This is horrifically bad. It won't kill EVE outright, but it'll maim it badly. I generally don't drama post about game changes (in fact I am usually willing to give them a shot), but this is just awful.

All of the "problems" mentioned with regard to the Character Bazaar are, in my opinion, actually interesting and positive gameplay elements. A character's name, appearance, history, sec status, faction standings, skill point allocation, remap status, implant set, jump clones, etc. all provide interesting gameplay and market choices. Making a good decision to purchase or sell a toon requires research and talking to other players - this is what EVE should be all about. It's completely open-ended, and very much in the spirit of the sandbox.

Now you're deprecating all of that with some really artificial skillpoint reallocation system that favors super-rich players despite the drawbacks you've put in place. To paraphrase your opening, you state that swapping mains in the current system is awkward. Well, guess what! You shouldn't be supporting that choice in the first place! Starting with a fresh toon and sticking with it through its normal progression is a critical EVE experience. Even if you purchase alts to supplement your main, I don't think there needs to be a mechanism to fast-track skill training on your main.

I have been playing this game very actively for two and a half years. I have never once felt limited by my SP in any regard. There's plenty to do and learn at each step along the way. If you do feel limited and are also wealthy, the character bazaar, MCT, and alt accounts are perfectly fine means to quickly acquire additional toons. By introducing "ISK-for-SP", you're inviting the sort of unfun "XP grinding" that most of us loathe from other MMOs. Please, don't bring this cancer to EVE.
Izmaragd Dawnstar
Pagids Legion
Wormageddon
#95 - 2015-10-15 16:02:24 UTC
Querns wrote:
Why would you do this when you can just buy the skill packets hot off the market?


Oh, they can do that too, depending on what will be more economical. Ugh
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2015-10-15 16:02:32 UTC
two very dangerous things:

1. this allows experienced people who have done something "terrible" a fresh start WITH SP and WITHOUT having to use the bazarr

2. this excludes anyone that uses this feature from high level gameplay. applications from people who no longer hold their first character are already automatically denied from pretty much any corporation that's worth applying to. just because it allows the "bad" guys a fresh start
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2015-10-15 16:02:57 UTC
Everything in the game is already for sale if you want it to be via PLEX. You can buy characters, ships, whatever you want with RL money already. For those taking a principled stance of some kind, fine, but if people wanted it to be, the game can already be pay to win. No brakes on the bandwagon though.
Meltur
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2015-10-15 16:03:45 UTC
oh dear god. pls dont
Cowboy Arnerette
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2015-10-15 16:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cowboy Arnerette
Absolutely NO. In your effort to attract new players this will actually lose new players. Scenario: I'm a newbie and I buy a few million SP's, jump in to my first T2 or T3, have no idea how to fly it, undock and lose it within 10 minutes. My reaction would be to quit because I think that SP's are the only thing you need to win in this game and it's so not the case. Time spent on skilling is time spent on learning EVE. Nothing more, nothing less but this is a terrible idea, and I am by no means a vet. I'm barely 2 years old.

EDIT: BTW I've never once posted a response to any devblog in the past, not SOV changes, not industry changes, not jump fatigue changes, but this one I felt I can't stay silent on.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#100 - 2015-10-15 16:04:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Querns wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Querns wrote:
They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.

Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.

They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game.

Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it.

Then plug your ears and block my posts. I do not see CCP being capable of working on multiple things at once without compromising all they work on with lots of detrimental effects. They were not capable of developing Dust besides of EVE, they were not capable of developing Sov properly while working on what? Gunjack? And went on vacation directly after the release. They left the industry part unfinished because they needed to work on sov. The list goes on and on and on.

But yes, CCP's dev time is not fungible and they themselves time and again stress that things are expensive in terms of dev time. Yet, CCP wastes their dev time on SKINs, wastes their dev time on this garbage, wasts it on what not mobile while the main game they have needs so many fixes, they'd be busy for another decade just to fix the bugs and broken things before introducing new content. And they waste their infugible dev time on things that do not improve the game itself, but only introduce more ways to grab money. You may not want to hear that anymore, but if you are fed up of it, then do something against it.

Hey, it was a (perhaps naïve) hope that it would convince someone to stop framing their argument around a patently untrue concept.

All you do when you scream "WHY DIDN'T YOU WORK ON XYZ INSTEAD????" is prove your own short-sightedness. It dilutes your entire argument and makes you look like a fool, for an easily-preventable reason.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.