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Destroying Mobile Warp Disruptors should generate killmails

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Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2015-10-16 16:13:52 UTC
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#22 - 2015-10-16 16:17:48 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.



why?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2015-10-16 16:24:40 UTC
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#24 - 2015-10-16 17:15:00 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.


That would be awesome! Thank you for even considering this!

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#25 - 2015-10-16 17:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Athryn Bellee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-10-16 17:26:09 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubbles walls


The problem is when some nullbear puts so many bubbles on the gate that you literally can't see anything without zooming nearly all the way out. I know you can usually petition them to be removed at that level, but it might be nice if there were a limit to how many could be on grid at the same time, or within a certain distance of each other.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#27 - 2015-10-16 17:33:20 UTC
Athryn Bellee wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubbles walls


The problem is when some nullbear puts so many bubbles on the gate that you literally can't see anything without zooming nearly all the way out. I know you can usually petition them to be removed at that level, but it might be nice if there were a limit to how many could be on grid at the same time, or within a certain distance of each other.


I have been through similar walls. Yes, it is annoying. But when you reflect that could be 2b ISK worth of losses on their killboard, a solution presents itself. A gang of left-over Ishtars could make quite a dent in someone's pocket.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Circumstantial Evidence
#28 - 2015-10-16 17:42:54 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?
I think I've read CCP had hoped to find time to move bubbles into the new drag/drop deployment system used by newer deployables like the depots and MTU (probably mentioned in those discussion threads). If they ever get to this, I would not be surprised if bubbles gained a timer.

Separately, "metaballs" - the graphical merging of overlapping bubbles into a continuous shape, was discussed as a future possibility, in the Art & Gfx panel in 2014 fanfest.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#29 - 2015-10-16 17:52:21 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.



If it has the possibility of dropping player loot - km

If it's just some space thing (no possibility of loot or npc thinger) - no km

Bubbles - no loot, so no km
sma at offline tower - loot, so km
abandoned tower - possible loot, so km

Drawing the line at loot seems like the easiest thing to do. Make it part of the loot fair drop randomizer code to generate a km.

A km for a bubble seems pretty bottom shelf to me. Next we'll be generating km for each asteroid we finish off (J/K - no one run with this bad idea please)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2015-10-16 18:11:41 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.


1 hour is pretty reasonable. I do have a problem with people building 'walls' that last forever and have no upkeep, I don't know why you don't.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#31 - 2015-10-16 18:33:01 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.


1 hour is pretty reasonable. I do have a problem with people building 'walls' that last forever and have no upkeep, I don't know why you don't.


Maybe because I've been to northern England and seen Hadrian's wall? Except for the parts where people have scavenged it, attacked it, or otherwise torn it down, it's still intact nearly two thousand years later. Walls are useless without someone to guard them. Making it worth something intangible to tear them down is enough of an incentive for me.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2015-10-16 18:47:51 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
is there any interest in making these things less spammable? they seem to last forever and can be infinitely overlapped. how about they last like 1 hour then pop, and can't overlap more than some amount?


See, there you go destroying the existing functionality of bubbles. They can currently be used to build a wall. I do not have a problem with people building walls. I just want to get some minor, intangible reward for destroying their wall (or asking my small roaming gang to do it).

I honestly think this will deal with most of the worst bubble walls.


1 hour is pretty reasonable. I do have a problem with people building 'walls' that last forever and have no upkeep, I don't know why you don't.


Maybe because I've been to northern England and seen Hadrian's wall? Except for the parts where people have scavenged it, attacked it, or otherwise torn it down, it's still intact nearly two thousand years later. Walls are useless without someone to guard them. Making it worth something intangible to tear them down is enough of an incentive for me.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one.


I'm trying to kill people here. it's hard enough already with intel channels, local, d-scanner and knowing what aligning is. making be burn 100km through bubbles or fly an interceptor on top of all that is too much.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#33 - 2015-10-16 18:54:17 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:


I'm trying to kill people here. it's hard enough already with intel channels, local, d-scanner and knowing what aligning is. making be burn 100km through bubbles or fly an interceptor on top of all that is too much.


Quoted for posterity.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#34 - 2015-10-16 19:25:23 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.



If it has the possibility of dropping player loot - km

If it's just some space thing (no possibility of loot or npc thinger) - no km

Bubbles - no loot, so no km
sma at offline tower - loot, so km
abandoned tower - possible loot, so km

Drawing the line at loot seems like the easiest thing to do. Make it part of the loot fair drop randomizer code to generate a km.

A km for a bubble seems pretty bottom shelf to me. Next we'll be generating km for each asteroid we finish off (J/K - no one run with this bad idea please)



pocos have no loot and have killmails.
Circumstantial Evidence
#35 - 2015-10-16 19:43:45 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
1 hour is pretty reasonable. I do have a problem with people building 'walls' that last forever and have no upkeep....
To go from infinity to anything is a massive nerf, but 1 hour seems way too short. 2 weeks to a month; that would be enough to help clean up the server database, and encourage ppl to shoot them vs. just avoiding the problem and waiting for expiration.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-10-16 20:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Lady Rift wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.



why?

So many reasons.

Killboards are easily one of the most overpowered sources of intel in the game (or I should say out of the game). They also help to propagate the risk-averse playstyles that so many players choose, because they don't want to ruin their precious efficiency ratio. Killmails also take so much out of context while allowing people to gain "kills" even when they literally had zero effect on the ship that died.

Aside from the huge role they play in intel, killboards are meaningless. Yet the majority of players put so much stock into them that they are a huge part of the game not just for the intel, but for the status of having either a good killboard or a bad killboard, and this leads to people not wanting to look bad on killboards so they don't want to lose ships so they play boring playstyles and ultimately they make the game that much less fun.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#37 - 2015-10-17 00:00:26 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.



why?

What good are they?
Do you get extra SP because of them?
Do you get ISK from the kill mail itself?
Does CCP hand out prizes for having kill mails?

The most obvious reason why kill mails are bad is because of the free intel you are giving anyone and everyone that bothers to look.
You know useless little things like what ships you like to fly, how you fit them, the types of ships you like to attack and the list goes on.
It never fails to amaze me how much free information all you PvP folk want to give away.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#38 - 2015-10-17 06:36:18 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Killmails shouldn't even exist in the first place, at least in their current form. They should be either removed from the game entirely or completely overhauled, but the sheep mentality will keep them where they are.



why?

What good are they?
Do you get extra SP because of them?
Do you get ISK from the kill mail itself?
Does CCP hand out prizes for having kill mails?

The most obvious reason why kill mails are bad is because of the free intel you are giving anyone and everyone that bothers to look.
You know useless little things like what ships you like to fly, how you fit them, the types of ships you like to attack and the list goes on.
It never fails to amaze me how much free information all you PvP folk want to give away.



The debate about removing kill mails from the game is interesting, but ultimately moot. They are in the game. Moreover, they are in the game because of massive player demand for them.

Do I think the game would be better without local chat, kill boards, Dotlan, and all the other out-of-game intel sources. Maybe? But that is beside the point - assuming that kill mails are here to stay, we should get them for destroying mobile warp disruptors.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-10-17 13:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Khan Wrenth
Well killmails do provide a bit too much info, but there's also something intangible but very real about getting a big kill. Think about it like fishermen...even if they have to cut up and eat "the big catch" (as opposed to stuffing it and mounting it on their wall), they'll brag to their fishermen buddies about getting it for the rest of their lives. It's human nature, people like to be able to show off how they got the big one.

The way to diminish the intel capacity of killmails is through overhauling general intel in EvE. [plug] I happened to write upon such a subject, link in my signature. [/plug]

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#40 - 2015-10-17 14:44:27 UTC
Blowing up miner's jetcans is a bit of a **** move. That said, killmails for killing anchored bubbles sounds great.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
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