Intergalactic Summit

Although Pi can be easily attributed as a relation of square thing to round thing, it can be found in triangles as well!

Mostly, because triangles consist of angles. Well, any polygons have triangles, just you see, unlike squares, where all angles are right, triangles have a lot of different angles, and they are simple plain figures that have angles. Oh, and don't worry, any triangle in any amount of dimensions will be flat, provided its sides are straight and not curved. But if they are curved, is it a triangle in first place?..

But anyway. Lets get one of angles of triangle right, it will be 90 degrees, two lines intersecting perpendicularly. Then other two remaining angles will be something different. These two lines would be catheti, and line connecting them - hypothenuse. You can notice, that if we fix one of catheti and would "open" and "close" hypothenuse, bringing it down and up from it, the angle, length of hypothenuse and other cathetus will be changing. The relation of length of that opposite cathetus to hypothenuse will be a function of the angle. If the angle will be 0 degrees, then opposite cathetus will have length 0. And if this angle will become 90 degrees, we would have to collapse our 'fixed' cathetus into a dot. Then our other cathetus and hypothenuse would have same length and the relation will become 1.

This function is called sine. And it has rather peculiar property. It's second derivative d²/dx²sin(x) is equal to the same function but with negative sign. Provided the angle is set in a certain measure system - radians. In that system 1 rad corresponds to an angle, formed by circumference arc of the circle equal to the radius of the circle. But here is again appears this relation of round to square! With such definition we can get that when the angle will be completely "open", it will be exactly PI radians!

We can also build inverse function of sine. If we have y=sin(x), then the inverse function arcsine will be defined as x=arcsine(y), which can be written as -i*ln(i*y + (1-y^2)^(1/2)). And now we know enough to get a pi from a triangle!

Lets draw a right triangle with equal sides. Its angles would be 45, 45 and 90 degrees. It is exactly a half of a square, split across it's diagonal, which will be a hypothenuse of our triangle. It is easy to show that if sides of triangles will be 'a', then length of hypothenuse will be √2a and thus sine (45 degrees) will be a/√2a = 1/√2

Okay, at the same time 45 degrees is a half of right angle, and 1/4 of fully open angle, so in radians it would be pi/4. Thus we have that

Pi = 4 arcsine (1/√2)

But you know, as a relation of square to round I think it is easier to understand...

I don't think that the Maker was throwing dices and doing things just for them to lay down and end as they are randomly. The world is too complex and there are dependencies everywhere. There are laws of physics, chemistry and biology. And all these laws have something in common, something underlying, tying everything together, the whole fabric of space, time, energy and existence. The math.

Here's the thing though. If you wish to be a Creator Deity you have to design systems and determine proportions of matter and decide how they all interact with each other.

To do any of that, you need to formulate mathematics.

The more complex you want your universe to be, the more complex the mathematics you need to devise.

That was my point! We can't. But the deity can.


Because that would be a pile of rocks.

To forge life, to harden it, you can't simply drop aminoacids into a mound and tell it to run and bark. Even if you had innate ability to create life, you'd get a variety of "pokefurriers", useless mewling creatures, running aimlessly and falling down from rocks, being eaten and killed by other creatures and the environment. While proper forging will create hounds, that would seek and hunt their prey, that would survive in harsh environments. And even if hounds aren't intelligent, their behavior patters could be organized into sets and groups. And this is again maths.

Returning to the stone throwing, the deity could easily calculate weight of the stone, to know amount and type of every atom consisting it, project its trajectory under all possible angles and initial velocity. Adjust trajectory according to gravity and resistance, caused by every and single atom and molecule of atmosphere that would collide to the rock on its way. And when everything will be set, it will be executed.

And what is more fascinating is a chain of events that would be set into motion. That stone would encounter a nitrogen molecule of the air and would give it enough kinetic energy to even leave the atmosphere. It is usual that molecules often leave planetary atmospheres. In several billion years it might enter a new forming star and give its kinetic energy to a hydrogen atom, that would hit other hydrogen atom. With new given energy they would collide and blend together, releasing more energy for other atoms around to participate into the fusion reaction. And so the new star will be ignited. Only because a thrown stone.

Get, yes. Agree with, not necessarily.

See, there's no rule (we know of) that says that the language doesn't exist yet. The language may be an outgrowth of certain parameters set in the process of creating a universe, may exist to a greater or lesser extent as a sort of "meta-reality," may not exist at all, etc.

Being more or less stuck in our own universe (occasional weird detours like warp drive effects and wormholes notwithstanding), we really don't know what context a creator deity creates/lives/hangs out in. That's part of what makes this so much fun-- it's an invitation to speculate wildly. There may be a well-established code for creating universes. Alternatively, this might not be The Creator/The Maker/God's first go at making a universe. She/he/it/they may have done this a trillion times before, each effort more sophisticated than the last but none of them involving any hard number crunching as we know it.

Or, it could be hard number crunching as we know it, but with The Creator cheating using omniscience. Why do math if you automatically know all the answers anyway?

This is kind of the shallow end of the weirdness scale. Is The Creator even a conscious being as we'd recognize it? Is there more than one creator god? Was the universe a team effort, or maybe just somebody's school project? There might be a whole society of such beings; for all we know, "creator god" is the deific equivalent of "potter."

Not being able to see much outside our kind of grandiose fishbowl leaves a lot of room for wild (and probably silly) imaginings.

Without disagreeing on any of your analysis of our rock-throwing potential (because I don't disagree with it): why would they?

A universe is a complex thing. We don't create machines without designing them. Yes, we create some pieces of art by intuition and skill, but others are created in the marriage of skill with design - a sculptor who works by welding pieces together can't simply assume his center-of-gravity or material strength will hold up, for example. He does his conceptual work, then his engineering work, and then creates.

I'd imagine that, as it requires a number of parts moving in concert, a universe would rather require a similar process.

Why would we think there are many universes? We don't know even if our one have limits. And if it doesn't have limits, everything can be realized withing just one universe. We don't even know about existence of the Maker. If there are indeed more than one universe, why they don't have their own Makers?

I think about deities in two different concepts. First - it is spiritual and religious deity. It lives with the people, where there are the people and for the people. And there must be people, who believe into them. For example, like Mr. Nauplius, but whose beliefs he made his Red God exist in spiritual plane. As soon as Mr. Nauplius dies, his deity will die as well, unless he would manage to find someone to follow his religion. Lets call them just spirits. But don't underestimate them with this word 'just', as they might have greater consciouseness than any human can imagine, and their power may be greater than power of whole empires. And they might and will affect human lives. They will bring happiness or sorrow, death or life.

Other concept is universal and deities. They create things and play with universes. They don't care about existence of peoples and about beliefs. They don't punish, they don't teach. They simply exist, disregarding if we believe in them or not. And they don't affect our lives at all. Yet they have a consciouseness and it is greater than all these spirit deities together.

Why I am telling this? Because from this point of view, such universal deities are unique to each universe. What is our brain? It is just a system of neurons, where information passes through, they have input and output. Each nerve cell is a simple and primitive automaton, accepting input and creating output, but together they create a network, in which consciouseness lives.

Now, look at our universe. You can split all the space into tiny cubes, and in each of these cubes energy and matter enters and leaves, often in changed form. They are the same easy automatons, changing the flow of information. Or whole universe is a flow of information, a giant supercomputer, or a brain. Unlimited in its dimensions and capabilities. What if this giant brain has consciousness as well. Wouldn't it be a consciousness of a God?.. tied to the universe He had created.

Ms. Jenneth, practicing something without putting any thought into it will yield subpar results. Take the enginges of our starships for example - we did not subconsciously design them, there's a great deal of deliberation behind every piece.

The value of PIE is enormous.

But trying to fathom the unfathomable is why Science exist in the first place. Utilising the unfathomable that is made fathomable is why Engineering exists.