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CSM member blog: "Jesus is dead"

First post
Author
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-11 09:53:26 UTC
Just a few overall impressions of the summit: "Jesus is dead"

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Hustomte
The Scope
#2 - 2011-12-11 15:28:06 UTC
Very nice write-up Big smile
I take it the minutes are coming Soon™

...Signature...

Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-11 17:56:04 UTC
Those minutes shoulbe out by January, 2013. No promises though! Lol
Rykuss
In Praise of Bacchus
#4 - 2011-12-11 19:01:00 UTC
Thanks for taking the time to update us.

You, too, can be a Solid Gold dancer.

Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-11 19:18:51 UTC
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Just a few overall impressions of the summit: "Jesus is dead"


Fixing broken stuff, polishing systems and mechanics, no more neglecting. That's the vibe I get from this. Sounds like what many have been wanting for years.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-11 20:30:50 UTC
Leave it to Icelanders to not notice things are going terribly, till a volcano erupts in their back yard.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2011-12-12 00:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Any chance of hassling for a devblog on CCP's future approach to developing Eve? You've done a decent job of setting out what you were told, but I think we'd be reassured hearing it direct from a senior CCP guy to be certain we're getting the correct message first-hand and that nothing is getting lost in translation.

Crucible's approach of fixing a 'thousand little things' was welcome, but I do worry that it was a bit of a sawn-off shotgun with fixes hitting various different parts of the game almost at random. Great as a one-off, but if this is the template for future development there's a risk that we won't see a focused effort on particular sectors of Eve that need attention. I don't think anyone would mind a more concentrated effort to use a single expansion for, say, completely overhauling industry (like we were initially supposed to get in Quantum Rise), or revamping lowsec, or going on a huge ship balancing frenzy.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2011-12-12 08:15:11 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Any chance of hassling for a devblog on CCP's future approach to developing Eve? You've done a decent job of setting out what you were told, but I think we'd be reassured hearing it direct from a senior CCP guy to be certain we're getting the correct message first-hand and that nothing is getting lost in translation.

Crucible's approach of fixing a 'thousand little things' was welcome, but I do worry that it was a bit of a sawn-off shotgun with fixes hitting various different parts of the game almost at random. Great as a one-off, but if this is the template for future development there's a risk that we won't see a focused effort on particular sectors of Eve that need attention. I don't think anyone would mind a more concentrated effort to use a single expansion for, say, completely overhauling industry (like we were initially supposed to get in Quantum Rise), or revamping lowsec, or going on a huge ship balancing frenzy.


This nicely articulates my thoughts. It's great to see a strong focus on "thou shalt fix thy stuff", but an organised, coherent methodology, combined with a judicious amount of carefully considered, relevent new stuff, would be nice to see.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
#9 - 2011-12-12 09:48:11 UTC
The secret shame of the whole "fixing stuff" vs "new stuff" debate is that so often the best way to fix stuff is to add new content. How do you fix unkillable lowsec motherships? Hictors. In theory, factional warfare should have done this for pvp newbies and Incarna sort of managed it with the new player experience(or so I hear) as well.

Some problems are also opportunities to wipe the slate clean and do a new, non-idiotic take on the problem. POSes seem the most obvious example - when they finally nuke those pieces of crap from orbit, the new system for doing the same basic things will hopefully be easier to use, more functional, more fun, and have a lot of interesting new possibilities for us to play with. PI is open to a similar solution - now that the customs offices have owners, you've got the groundwork in place to transition it to a system where planets have owners, which allows you to have PI that's based on cities and factories, not pins and hotspots. It's a fix, but it's also new content. And if they take that sort of approach to the cases where the current gameplay is completely broken, I expect a lot of people will be very happy with it.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-12 10:26:10 UTC
Sim City in space :squee:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-12 11:35:29 UTC
Transport Tycoon in space :squee:

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-12 11:57:07 UTC
Seriously, if CCP made a transport tycoon clone which didn't suck and had cargo routing...





...I'd lose my life in there.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2011-12-12 14:41:42 UTC
Herschel Yamamoto wrote:
The secret shame of the whole "fixing stuff" vs "new stuff" debate is that so often the best way to fix stuff is to add new content. How do you fix unkillable lowsec motherships? Hictors...


Fair comment, but consider that whenever you imitate the old woman who swallowed a fly, eventually you end up swallowing something so big that you choke. For instance, you are correct that HICs were a good counter to lo-sec motherships (how well I remember the tears), but with them also came some unintended side-effects - like low-sec gate camps with quad-RSB'd HICs instalocking with infipoints, which considerably changed the balance of risk of travelling in lo-sec. The root cause of the whole problem was introducing supercaps "because of awesome!" in the first place.

So yes, by all means introduce new stuff to fill gaps and extend gameplay - but carefully carefully and never just "because of awesome!"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2011-12-12 15:14:22 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Seriously, if CCP made a transport tycoon clone which didn't suck and had cargo routing...





...I'd lose my life in there.



they did. It's called "Freighter"... and flying one does rip the soul right out of you.Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
#15 - 2011-12-12 17:23:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So yes, by all means introduce new stuff to fill gaps and extend gameplay - but carefully carefully and never just "because of awesome!"


Of course.
Myxx
Incredible.
#16 - 2011-12-12 19:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
I'll wait with reserved opinions to see if this is truly the case. The one way to prove it, imo, is to remove microtransactions entirely as a part of the plan to fix crap that needs fixing.

In other words: Their talk... seems cheap.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-12-13 09:22:12 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
they did. It's called "Freighter"... and flying one does rip the soul right out of you.Cool

I disagree, at least in hisec. Worst case I'll just setup the autopilot and watch a movie for a few hours. A properly implemented Sim City + OpenTTD in space with proper cargo destinations and cooperation with other cities, however... that **** would suck the lifeblood out of me.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2011-12-13 11:23:51 UTC
Hustomte wrote:
Very nice write-up Big smile
I take it the minutes are coming Soon™


Last time we divvied up all the different sections and independently made minutes which ended up taking a week'ish?

Then it took forever to get them formatted all the same style wise (some people did conversational, some people did bullet point and we had to get them all the same) then they get cleared by CCP which was the bottleneck.

Our relationship with CCP is different these days though and I suspect getting the minutes cleared will happen a lot quicker.


Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#19 - 2011-12-14 11:02:20 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Hustomte wrote:
Very nice write-up Big smile
I take it the minutes are coming Soon™

snip
Our relationship with CCP is different these days though and I suspect getting the minutes cleared will happen a lot quicker.

But I think it would be wise for people to understand that it'll likely still be a bit of haggling between the CSM6 and CCP.

And that both sides might have a bit of both post patch and post csm meeting lag.

Not to mention an upcoming holiday.

If you get the minutes out before christmas than I'll salute both sides for a job very well done.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2011-12-14 12:46:50 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
If you get the minutes out before christmas than I'll salute both sides for a job very well done.



Haha this will not happen Oops
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