EVE General Discussion

Make all PvE that way. Scripted power combat is never a challenge for play. It is just a matter of figuring it out. That is what takes out incursions difficulty. No "Adapt or Die" involved. Just like a WoW raid.

Burners are the peak of this. Make them stupid tough and then tell you exactly what is needed to fight. Essentially remove the player from the tactics side.

Two tank missions are not "bad" if it is offset by player skill. Heavy tank means a slow victory and low isk. More time affected bonus would be real nice. Unknown enemies to make fit for mish difficult. To really make money, make fleet missions. More difficult and complex for not a whole lot more base isk per person, but potential for more reward. Off topic F&I here.

Not sure of the removing highsec will fix the game. The core of the game that lets low and null work needs highsec. Those casual gamers and pve people that get and make those core resourses. To fix a removal of highsec, that would mean massive yield increases and pile of other changes just to keep the industry up to speed.

Integration of the different sec status is what is needed. Give tools to allow pirates to raid high from low or into sov. Make sec standings more valuable and lasting. Suddenly it is gameplay, not arcade.

As to your preamble, same applies to you from my perspective. As long as that is your attitutude, well, same to you. No point in arguing against it.

1) It adds more PvP opportunity. Red is dead.

2) My proposal does not change that. It just provides more opportunity for 1), as above.

3) A) Its bullshit to compare to new/inexperienced players, as those are often the target of illegal HS aggression themselves. B) A crime is a crime. Doesnt matter if you are new or old, same thing. C) New players are innured by automatic security settings. If they turn them off or ignore them, thats their own fault. Same **** results, as for everyone else. D) New players are not a defence in this argument.

"It adds more PvP opportunity. Red is dead." is not really an argument. It is just a sentence that states your perceived goal with the proposed change.

If we assume that "Red is dead", then why does people not just use the already implemented solution (wardec) to combat ganking?

Using wardecs, means you don't have to wait for people to get below -5, but can actively go a hunt them. However, in my first post in this thread, I pointed out, that highsec players do not have a PvP mentality. And this is where the problem lies, changing the amount of sec status lost will not sway the mind of a risk-averse player.

The mentality of highsec players, who are fundamentally PvE players, is the reason your proposed change will not have an effect.


If you remember your first week ever in EvE, then you might recall being overwhelmed by the UI. Sure, when you are an older player, you know that changing your safety and shooting stuff in highsec is dumb. But a person who does not understand the UI, might be confused by its different functions, as well as, not understand the consequences for shooting another player.

While it will be rare, that someone truly shoots someone by accident. Given that the change does not influence anything ganking related, I don't see why the possible negative effects, as rare as they may be, should just be ignored.

random rant as everyone is doing:

since I started 3 years ago the game has definitely been dumbed down, mainly I imagine for the move to steam which requires tutorials with less than 2 syllables.

but:

hi is still hi, populated by people who want to be there and there seems to be a lot

lo is still lo, populated by no-one anyone gives a **** about

wh's are populated by people who do things

code are just bored people doing the same thing that happens in every MMO since the beginning of PVP, killing those who don't fight back at little cost to themselves, anyone who has played longer than a few weeks should have no cares about them.

null is still null, populated by self important moaners who cry every time something happens to the game / in the game they don't like and who seem to think that people should listen to them (because they are the only ones who matter of course, me, me, me).

EVE is a VERY OLD game, there are still things to do, challenges to face, empires to build....

if you can't see them, or have done them all then this GAME isn't for you. go play something on Facebook where everyone will like you for crying. this is a GAME with gameplay, don't like it the way it is just change your gamestyle or leave.

if you want to make a statement when you leave buy every PLEX in the game, jettison them and shoot them, make a video, become famous. there we are, that's your new challenge, are you up to it?

as for the op's post:

can't really remember it after all these pages of trolling and rubbish but the game is what it is, a very old game. it will never be the same as it was, it has changed, you have changed and the grass was always greener in those days.

a lot of gamers mentalities have changed with the rise of consoles, new players have different ideas about games than those of us who started on Commodores and Atari's. I imagine the devs are the same, they have to make a game that appeals to all of us even though they are all from different playing backrounds.

console users and steam players want games they can 'win' in a week, Facebook players want games they can cry over while boasting how amazing they are, some players want to rule the whole game with massive empires, some just want to have fun and some of us actually like mining.

there isn't and never will be a 'fix' to make it more playable for everyone, some want null to be unstable, some stable, some want hi to be safe, some want it to be a pigeon shoot. no one cares about lo.

code are doing what they want, when they want. if they are doing it because there is nothing else for them then at least they have adapted to the changes instead of moaning like some here. even as a multi-box miner they have no impact on my game, I play my game my way, something happens then I have learned to adapt and change (although I do like a good moan and rant for the sake of it).

lol another drunken post that has lost its focus if there ever was one but basically, its a game, don't like what is happening in your little bit of it: adapt or leave. I've rage quit a few times, nothing wrong with that.

p.s. the game cannot of always been brilliant as people have always left in droves every update and always will.

This is why pve vs pvp discussions never go anywhere. How can one expect a different mentality to just change and accept another or figure out how to make a system work together. Intolerance to ideologies has led to genocide. If people commit mass murder over stuff like this, then what chance does a casual game mechanic stand?

Simply put, pve NEEDS to be the bait to becoming part of pvp. Eve should excel at large and diverse fleets. This means support and foot soldiers. Roles ideal for pve and new players. But the mechanics are far to different. PvE is why I got out into nullsec because PvE introduced me to pvp roles. The pvp was more fun, but to keep it fun meant a whole pile of boring. PvE in my mind is more enjoyable and engaging... For some bits.

Essentially, the pvpers are the reason pve people dont. Quite frankly, look past mission scripting, PvE is more engaging. More choices available and no two hour fleet ops for just a potential fight. Live events of sansha a prime one. Ships blow up everywhere, no isk earned and thousands showed up for an extended good time. Does pve neex to be more like pvp, pr pvp more like pve combat in terms of experience?

Maybe some midpoint is needed....

FYI paragraphs can be composed of more than one or two sentences.

You are correct, Salvos, in rubbishing the comment of that other chap. Sasha's security status leaps up and down rather wildly. I haven't the numbers to allow him to remain permanently at -10 while he attempts to discourage misbehaviour among mission-runners and chases war-targets around Highsec. It's grubby work, but it must be done.

Look, I don't want to appear over-critical, but how is it that those large dark tear-streaks on your face both obey and defy gravity?

That and "Im already -10 so I don't care".
Well, no fking **** sherlock!

Maybe EVE needs a big shake up.


Example: new space where you need new ships (because something something cosmic rays), that you can only build in the new space.

New space can be accessed through player-built stargates (stable, but very expensive - requires big alliance) or random wormholes (instable, but anyone can hop in for some ninja action).


To make it interesting, CCP announces that Tritanium in New Eden is depleting (like oil in rl). It will last 2 years, maybe just one (don't give a precise date, make it fun). Sooner or later, you can only mine trit in the New Space.


Eventually make new weapons, modules, etc. for the new ships (not OP, just different; and re-start from scratch instead of continuously balancing 100s of ships).


Just a quick brainstorming, but after 12 years it's maybe time to think BIG.

My 2c

Its irrelevant to the issue.
Doesn't matter whether new player ranking is 0, 5 or 100.

An illegal act is illegal, whether intentional, "accidental" or by an account new or old.

Very weak, infact outright pathetic, attempt on your part.