EVE General Discussion

Yes you can. The player base decided that goons won Eve.

So, the Player base decided that they lost. That's called giving up.

However, I call bullshit on that one, because if they decided, that they all lost - what are they still doing here?

I disagree, the changes to the wardec mechanisms and the associated mechanics that allow people to avoid them essentially forced the smaller wardec groups to team up in order to be able to spread their wardecs over multiple targets in order to have something to shoot at

That only applies to those corps that have structures, if they don't have structures wardecs are, and still will be, trivial to avoid.

If they don't have structures they also aren't relevant to be wardecced for the most part either.
So yea.....

HS wardeccers are impatient simpletons. They log on and camp a gate or station used by their targets and even though they might kill billions worth per week, they are just shooting fish in barrels and docking up when anything big arrives.
I've seen some try to do things that take more than a single brain cell and look disorganized and messy doing it. Sometimes i wonder if they even have voice comms.
They're almost a step down from gankers, who at least lose ships to get stuff killed.
As a low / nullsec critter, i view them as weirder and sadder than the hisec barnacles they chew on.

One can't win Eve. There is no one global victory condition, no outro, no end credits and the game does not end. If there was, and Goons would have won the game, as you claim, the game would be over and a new round would start.

One can only "win" based on one's own personal victory conditions. Most people in Eve these days know very well what they can do and what they can't, and they are setting their victory conditions accordingly. People know, they can make a bajillion ISK/h, so they do. They also know they can't kill that one Marmite guy on the undock, so they don't try. There is not a lot of "maybe" in there, especially on actions that would be worth taking that risk.

I'd say this is mostly due to the age of the game. Many people have been playing for years and simply know wtf. Those who don't learn pretty quickly from those who do. However, the game has gotten a lot more clear on it's rules: People know exactly how long CONCORDs response time is in any system, under any given conditions. They know, how long burning down a region will take, because there's a fixed timer on everything related to Sov now. They know who can shoot who in High sec, because we have nice differently colored timers for everything, with a tooltip on mouseover. Accidents with Highsec Aggression can barely happen these days thanks to the safety switch. They even know when exactly their Gate cloak will expire, because the game shows a timer for it.

On the surface, all those little things are simply good game design. However, back in the day, people got into Eve despite, the bad game design. I'd even go so far to say they got into it because of the bad game design. All those terrible interfaces and arcane rules are great content drivers. Unpaid sov bills, Can flipping, Corp theft ... all those things happened at least partly because somebody clicked something wrong or because they misinterpreted or simply didn't know the rules.

Remember the days when you had to wait a minute before you could re-dock after docking? When there were stations that would spit you out, not giving you the chance to redock before you left docking range? You had to know in what kind of station you were sitting, when enemies were waiting outside.

Those arcane rules and bad interfaces were also an equalizer of sorts. Yeah, you may not stand a chance against that guy, but there's a good chance he'd make a mistake.

As it is right now, many of those rules are very clear, and everybody either knows them anyway or can see them printed out on the screen. Everybody can gauge very accurately what will happen if he did something, and how the outcome would be.

On the Nullsec side of things: New structures or no - people know that the Imperium would crush them in a few days, if it wanted to, so they don't even try. First, it was the big bad ~Apex force~. That's gone now. However, one doesn't need it anymore anyway, it has been replaced by Interceptors (or T2/T3 Cruisers, if serious) which don't suffer Jump Fatique and can simply be replaced. No need for a supply line, simply buy your siege gear on the market.

How much of the playerbase and does that mean we all have to accept the view of a few?

On a daily basis, Goons affect my play about 0%. I occasionally run across them and fight and we occasionally take a fleet into Deklein to be hammered, but that's all fun.

Goons certainly didn't win the Eve I'm playing.

That was a total twist on what was being said, the gank victim in a non-combat ship is actually unimportant in terms of the combat, all that matters is CONCORD response time and what tank the victim has fitted. They hardly matter in the combat at all because they can't do anything.

To the gankers the gank victim is a tear font, sadly for them all those that are likely to give them tears have left the game, all that's left is people that don'r care about that loss.

No twist at all. The exact quote was:

"HS illegal aggression is not PvP, its ultimately PvE."

Nothing about combat ships. Just that highsec illegal aggression is not pvp.

Yet the only way for there to be illegal aggression in highsec is for one player to attack another player or to steal from another player.

Both sides of the equation are players.

After that, CONCORD's response is the environment attacking the player, but that isn't illegal aggression.

Illegal aggression in highsec is pvp. It can't be otherwise.