EVE General Discussion

EvE online sells based on this. However, new players are given this.

Until that fundamental disconnect is resolved with bold changes to hisec, EvE will never reach critical mass IMHO.

No additional module, ship, deployable, PVE content, player-built-anything or nerfed new-player-experience will change this fundamental disconnect.

CCP was bold with nullsec changes. Time to be equally bold with hisec, and stop listening to fricken carebears leading them down the garden path to committing seppuku.

F

That is both points I was trying to make. Globally, a donut is reference to any torus shape. A hole is part of that. Code is like putting a hole in a donut. Just caust it makes something, it doesnt mean it is good for anything. But without, there are many better ones.

Your second statement also stands. Eve has mechanics for good fights and certain situations, the smaller, but good FC fleet can win vs higher numbers and bling. Rooks and Kings style vids is what should be expected and the norm for top tier of combats. The mechanics do not really lend themselves to a chessboard style fleet which small pawns are key, and veterans make up a small but critical specialty roles in stuff like bs, t2 and caps.

Instead, eve in the gaming community is just becoming a griefer paradise. What kind of gamer crowd does that attract? The bad mentality is this one that eve doesnt want casual and pve players. I always say we do want them. These people who will pay the subs, and fill in those tedious casual roles. If the harsh part of eve is properly integrated, these casual players will have better knowledge. Counter piracy will become just part of gameplay. Piracy should be lifestyle in eve, not casual.

It's absolutely CCP's fault that there is not much engaging content in highsec. They've doggedly stripped away tools and means by which to create player interaction and content, and they've done it for more than a decade. And they have done this to enable what? Mining, and missions, two of the most boring things in the entire MMO industry. I have actually fallen asleep while missioning and not died. And mining is even worse.

Is that an interesting game? Or is that just "run wheel, get cracker?" It's why I'm a primarily PvP focused player, because if I wanted a horrendous grindfest, if I wanted a "game" that just tests my tolerance for boredom, I would go play one of those Korean MMOs where it takes two hundred hours to get to level five.

This actually I am in agreement with entirely.

The gameplay part of eve is dull at its heart for PvE. But the key is understanding the mentality of the player. Some do just like the social aspect. People have a high stress day so a game where you can go and mine with peeps, and chat the stuff is attractive. That is why cheesy flash games are so popular. Thet are as basic as you can get, but some makers get millions off of it.

That is why I push for integration and playstyle. Why is piracy from lowsec to highsec not a thing? The tools do not exist in any meaningful or enticing manner. Why is pve predictable and not blowing up ships as just a part of play? Why does the pvp mechanics not give advantage to fleet diversity, tactics and squad on squad combat?

Despite debates, you and I tend to be opposite sides of same coin. I find the PvP in eve to be very dull. Lots of waiting around for a rare good fight, or just retreating because of a slight numbers difference. Large fleets when I left null was everybody fit the same and the FC tells you what to shoot. Is why I ran logi majority of the time. Much more reactive and independent. Toss in cap ship blobs and victories didnt even give satisfaction of the win being a win.

So I left null because my experiences there couldnt live up to my experiences with the sansha live events or the corps I ran before that out of highsec. I would love to play in lowsec as a perma small gang or solo pirate raider, but as a playstyle. As it stands, need alts, or highsec contacts, etc. Instead, I just mostly run exploration sites solo in low and null or casual pve.

When I want good pvp, I play other games. In eve, if I played for good pvp, I would get burned in standings for no gain.

EDIT: The pvp for me is evading combat in low, null without having to stop my goal. That is my issue with current grief style wardecs. It isnt forcing a player to be smarter or work around their ideal play, the counter is to stop what you are doing and do something else. Same with ganks. So casual that while they can have workarounds, the lack of lasting consequence or it being a supported playstyle make it immersion breaking.

That is the issue. People just complain instead of focusing on solutions for both sides.

In a different thread, myself and others discussed piracy in eve. The theft of good from haulers and such SHOULD happen. But the mechanics to do so are flawed. Neut haulers to pick up etc. Gank followed by a quick sec status fix isnt really piracy. People who wish to pirate need to be able to sustain their highsec piracy while being restricted to low. Make use of npc standings and security for access to pirate gates. Have it so you can escape concord this way. Suddenly going heavy negative isnt bad, and being deep into negative is extremely tough to fix. Now you are playing pirate.

Now, flip it other way. Taking out said peeps earns sec status. LP earned both sides for taking out pirate/security people.

more idea, blah blah for another topic

Suddenly piracy and counter piracy is full on immersive play and warfare. LP to replace losses without injecting isk into the system.

The more extreme you are to either end of sec standing, the more you earn and the more perks you gain. But end result is grief ganks reduce but piracy is more enticing as is counter piracy. People would patrol trade lanes increasing security which could in long run look at changing concord response times. This means fits and ganks could change. Lots of potential without breaking or nerfing ganking. It would only penalize casual ganks. Though I thought eve isnt supposed to be casual?

That is same deal. The cerebear whine til they get what they want without consideration for the other party. Carebears, the kind that think they should be able to play with blinders on and zero risk? Not for me. Shouldnt be here. Eve needs crime in highsec, keeps the game interesting. In fact, I find crime and lowsec to be the most interesting, but under developed component of eve. A high sec vs lowsec style of open ended warfare? How great would that be.

As it stands, why dont people anti pirate? For me, because there is no point. Pirate gates should be like warfare sites, but access only given to those with correct standings on both sides. Pirates, a service from the npc pirate corps. High sec people get it as intel. LP via target value. Just bare concept, but would take some planning to make it properly brought in without exploit.

End of day, gotta have crime. Just less casually. As long as pirates cannot escape concord back to low, and no real way or reason for players to counter it, piracy and crime is broken.

Instead, is as you said. Instead of fixing, they just give out cookies.

You know what we call gankers who aren't -10?

*@*%ing amateurs, that's what.

The resource distribution... ahh... they need to bring resource competition to all forms of eve. Remember the wars over moon poo?

That is what wars, CODE, and highsec should be like. All the highsec stuff, should be fairly low value, and low earning. Some systems having higher. War declarations should be a tool for driving these away. CODE style play is perfect for that. They can run a protection racket of these 0.5 and 0.6 places with lucrative business. Industrials can pay for said rights. If two people pay for protection, then want to war, well then they gotta fight it out. How good would that be. Is still carebear, still ganking, but now has a reson that is focused and developed.

All by adding a system based war declaration and removing a friendly even spread of minerals.

Now head to low security and null security, change yield more.

Ooh, that last bit got me thinking. I know the following is true because I used to do this and know people making billions consistently from it. Building capitals in highsec and never have to even undock. They pay couriers, buy and sell from highsec all the minerals and resources to produce capital ships. A quick jump to a low sec station, is party time and the iskies roll on in. I really think that was a big part of blob warfare. Capital ship operation and purchase does not rely on the space where they are used for the most part.

So quite right. What is needed is more PvP space reliance on carebears. Let carebears be carebears, but if they want to really get into it, should they not be welcomed into low and preferably nullsec to literally build empires? This way they are the core, and the combatants are the security, or in a more villainous tone, The military recruits industry people to fuel the empire.

This is one of those areas where my personal experience is lacking. I never got involved with the industry side of things in nullsec. I bought stuff in highsec and moved my assets around in my carrier. All I got from low and null from my time in alliances was NPC bounty farming?

So in terms of resource development, here is a strange one. What if the materials were tweaked again to increase reliance on the null security industry? Yeah, bigger ships to require bigger materials, but there has to be some way to get pvp corps and alliances to have an industrial base plus a way to get them out there.

Ugh.... tangled web. Back to the thread and to keep myself from getting too complex. Localize war declarations, and make some sweet honeypot systems in highsec to encourage smaller corps to dec each-other. Reduce grief play in favour of criminal play by bringing in some criminal undercurrent to highsec. As result, the low sec statuses lose more access that is hard to fix, but have criminal markets, etc as alternatives to prevent it from removing serious criminal play while adding more depth.



And that is why I get so heated about these discussions. My original foray into any leadership part of eve was while I was still fairly newb into eve. Being part of a corp and alliance that always ended up in war decs, people I knew and players were getting Jaded. I never found them an issue. Reason?

I like to learn game mechanics before devoting myself to play. I ask questions, but prefer to not be told just how to do it. If just told, I don't learn the actual concepts and mechanics. So right off the back, I had a grasp of all the modules, fittings and tactics. Spent a week checking that stuff out. So when my first AWOX experience occured, I was ready. I quickly plugged in short SP skills, got myself a tackle jam griffin fitted up, and off to counter the AWOX.

So a couple weeks old, I as an industry noob, tackled and jammed a superior firepower ship. I did not care about losing the cheap ship, I would make sure corpies reimbursed me. Cause of that extremely cheap griffin and fit that took no SP to fly, I caught and we killed an AWOXer. Win for us. Mentality in my head that eve victories are what you make them, and it doesn't take much SP to counter.

From there, I developed a reputation with a fairly large base of carebears. I got nominated without a say in the matter to lead an alliance, and then formed a private elite corp. All based on my different approach to highsec lifestyle and the opinion that a victory is your goal, not a killboards. Over the years, I taught many jaded people how to counter ganks, and low cost/low SP war dec counters. Didn't get kills, but when the war dec is retracted after a day without a loss, that is for me and those industry carebears, a win. hulkageddon? We mined!

no I didnt

Oh my.
I don't even know where to start.

*hucks a dart at the board*

Shooting -10's!
Can't be arsed most of the time.
If I'm in space I'm either suspect and occupied with taking things that other people believe to be theirs, or I'm hunting a war target.
In either case it's a true waste of my time to chase after a criminal thrasher, catalyst, shuttle or pod I happen to pass by. In the latter two cases I actually lose money if I do due to ammo costs. Plus it kinda gives me a warm fuzzy to pass through the systems they operate in and watch local blow up (and a goodly portion of the grid).

Wardeccing NPC corps!
While it does sound fun, I do actually believe that the carebears should be allowed to grow fat and juicy in relative peace so long as they exercise reasonable caution and don't expect the benefits of playing the big boy game.
Being that I've noticed that amongst corps that we dec there's usually about 10% of the membership that jumps corp before the war even goes live, I can only imagine this effect being amplified in NPC corps.

I had more, but I ran out of cares.
Will simply end this by stating that I actually agree with what Lucas said.
O.O