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Live on SiSi. RIP Hyperdunking. Bears win again. Pour one for Globbyy

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Paranoid Loyd
#41 - 2015-10-08 20:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Before your head explodes from trying to think, I'll give you a hint to the simplest solution, each account has three slots.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#42 - 2015-10-08 20:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
How can anyone NOT see hyperdunking as an exploit?


Because it is literally on the list of "NOT exploits."

That's how.


Thanks for that link.

And according to that link, if I was getting bumped and logged out. Then the person bumping me would be violating this declared exploit.

EDIT: Wait am I reading that right?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#43 - 2015-10-08 20:37:35 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
How can anyone NOT see hyperdunking as an exploit?


Because it is literally on the list of "NOT exploits."

That's how.


Thanks for that link.

And according to that link, if I was getting bumped and logged out. Then the person bumping me would be violating this declared exploit.


*sigh*

Learn to read. It literally says the opposite. If you log out, you are fair game, it's only when logging in that it even has the chance of counting.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#44 - 2015-10-08 20:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Estella Osoka wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
How can anyone NOT see hyperdunking as an exploit?


Because it is literally on the list of "NOT exploits."

That's how.


Thanks for that link.

And according to that link, if I was getting bumped and logged out. Then the person bumping me would be violating this declared exploit.

EDIT: Wait am I reading that right?

Um, no.

That's a totally different situation.

That arose as an exploit when some players killed a Titan (I could be wrong on the kill, would need to double check) because they scanned it down after it logged off and then sat at the spot it disappeared from space until it logged on again. They then bumped it and killed it. It was ruled an exploit because there literally was nothing the pilot could do because the game forces an emergency warp when you login, in space.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#45 - 2015-10-08 20:39:46 UTC
How can you bump a ship from e-warping back in?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#46 - 2015-10-08 20:41:10 UTC
Warp pod back to station, draw concord with an skt/friend, reship in station and fly back to gate.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Paranoid Loyd
#47 - 2015-10-08 20:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Zappity wrote:
Warp pod back to station, draw concord with an skt/friend, reship in station and fly back to gate.

Not sure what you are responding to, but you can't warp while criminal.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#48 - 2015-10-08 20:44:09 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Warp pod back to station, draw concord with an skt/friend, reship in station and fly back to gate.


Or just bring enough friends and do it right the first time.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#49 - 2015-10-08 20:45:14 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
How can you bump a ship from e-warping back in?

See the edit to my post above. Happened in nullsec.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2015-10-08 20:51:03 UTC
All tears are good tears.

My reply? So? Most probable reason is that if it was AI, Concord would swap targets and pod you the instant you de-ship. Alas, they are limited by AI mechanics.

So considering CCP's investment of time, I would rather them spend majority of their time on higher priority mechanics. It was an issue which CCP appears to consider a problem, but they went with the most time efficient reply which is... prevent criminals from reshipping.

Personally, I would have liked another solution of the new drifter AI on concord that included podding.

What is needed though is mechanics that can allow concord to be evaded, but to do so, it means that sec status would also have to be extremely difficult to repair once burned. A wide and complex mechanic to implement correctly and allow it to still be a playstyle to be an effective counter to highsec life.

Til then, highsec drives the in game economy, so be happy that it is just a tweak to fix a mechanic that only exists because of a poor AI system.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#51 - 2015-10-08 20:52:09 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
And you cant use alt cuz thats not YOUR concord spawn. YOUR concord spawn is waiting at gate.

There is nothing like YOUR CONCORD spawn. If you go criminal or undock in a ship with criminal flag you will always pull the spawn closest to you no matter who spawned it.

Evil RatKid
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-10-08 20:57:25 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

There is nothing like YOUR CONCORD spawn. If you go criminal or undock in a ship with criminal flag you will always pull the spawn closest to you no matter who spawned it.



Legitimate question:

It has been a few years since I have done a gank. Why are there sometimes massive Concord clouds orbiting the gates?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#53 - 2015-10-08 20:58:12 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
So considering CCP's investment of time, I would rather them spend majority of their time on higher priority mechanics. It was an issue which CCP appears to consider a problem, but they went with the most time efficient reply which is... prevent criminals from reshipping.

The amount of tears they shed on how difficult it is to change stuff in the game I bet it took them the whole time to fix it since Hyperdunking became public knowledge. All this just to remove a mechanic which can be countered by a single t1 frigate.

Evil RatKid
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#54 - 2015-10-08 21:02:24 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

There is nothing like YOUR CONCORD spawn. If you go criminal or undock in a ship with criminal flag you will always pull the spawn closest to you no matter who spawned it.



Legitimate question:

It has been a few years since I have done a gank. Why are there sometimes massive Concord clouds orbiting the gates?

There is a CONCORD squad spawned for every criminal involved in the gank. However, once they are spawned they move around the system. If you attack with 10 people and pull with 8, 2 squads will be left at the gate. If you gank with 15 the second time 5 new squads will spawn and 10 will move. And so on.

http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/ganking-101-concord-manipulation.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/brapelille-concord-disposal.html

Evil RatKid
Aoife Fraoch
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-10-08 21:05:09 UTC
Hyper dunking couldn't have accounted for that large a percentage of ganks? I am probably a little more interested in what other unintended effects this leads to.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2015-10-08 21:06:36 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

The amount of tears they shed on how difficult it is to change stuff in the game I bet it took them the whole time to fix it since Hyperdunking became public knowledge. All this just to remove a mechanic which can be countered by a single t1 frigate.


No debates on that. I had a good in game buddy which I used to fly escort for when he did his higher value haulings for a bit of extra protection. Hyperdunking wasn't a thing back then and I flew a boosting command ship to up the tank. Never got bothered for some reason. Guess people recognize a vulture and charon going into and coming out of warp together to be something.

If he still played and I ran escort, most likely would have changed it up to just as you suggest.

Most of the tears though are those first timers. Is why I want ganking to be integrated as a serious piracy play style instead. This way players are aware of the issue from the start and makes it something that carebears are apprehensive of, but have knowledge to counter the casual ganks.

Pirate gates and deadspaces are sorely needed. Have concord chase to warp, etc, but make deadspace they cannot get into. Ganking higher challenge, but offer a way to sneak back out. etc... complex F and I, all that stuff.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#57 - 2015-10-08 21:09:04 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:

Most of the tears though are those first timers.


Nope.

The vast majority of the tears are from old players who think they shouldn't have to play the game to be safe. Their tears are a result of their being unable to reconcile their erroneous viewpoint that PvP should not exist with the obvious fact that it does. Cognitive dissonance, basically. It's why they lash out like petulant little children, too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#58 - 2015-10-08 21:09:08 UTC
I don't see the problem. Frankly I wish it wouldn't let you jump or dock while flagged either. Including suspect. Ganking is perfectly legitimate, but hyperdunking was only cleared from being an exploit because the rules say 'ship' and not 'player'.

Just be happy they didn't start letting CONCORD pod players again.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#59 - 2015-10-08 21:14:15 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Kinis Deren wrote:
CCP are muscling in on the ganking permit market. HTFU CODE/goonies, put some mayo where CCP touched you, adapt or ---->H1Z1


wut? considering nerfing hyper dunking does nothing to the normal operations (ie warping 30+ talos/cattys on a freighter and blaping it) of CODE. or Goons. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few that do hyper dunking in each group, but hardly a general nerf to either group.

It kills paranoid loyd style ganking. Thoraxes ganking t1 indys cuz he cant pull conxord from gate for extra 15mins. Then get another 15min timer. Then gank again.

Effectively doubling criminal timer/time between gate ganks cuz cant kill a t1 indy with a thorax with concord still at the gate grid


I was under the assumption it meant you can't board a ship in space. if it is can't board a ship anywhere that might be a bit too far. but can always go a jump up/down the pipe, alternate between gates in system, or use an alt to draw concord away.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#60 - 2015-10-08 21:28:19 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
How can anyone NOT see hyperdunking as an exploit?


Because it is literally on the list of "NOT exploits."

That's how.

CCP has the ability to change their decision on stuff. Especially on things that are a new and unintended consequences of other changes. While it isn't skirting the rules of concord it seems kinda close. It was within the letter of the law, but maybe not the spirit. I have trouble believing that people didn't think this would get patched out at some point.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter