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[Focus Group] Tactical Destroyers

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Author
JOhnDrees
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#61 - 2015-10-08 22:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: JOhnDrees
Odracir Atosc wrote:
I think its a bit ridiculous that johndrees is in this group because the only thing that he understands is hot droping nothing else.


I have quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. I do enjoy a good hotdrop though.
4chan SlashPOL
Trillium Invariant
Honorable Third Party
#62 - 2015-10-08 23:05:12 UTC
Odracir Atosc wrote:
I think its a bit ridiculous that johndrees is in this group because the only thing that he understands is hot droping nothing else.


And the only thing that CVA members know how to do is bling marauders to be more expensive than a carrier...
Bloodmyst Ranwar
Menace of Morons
#63 - 2015-10-08 23:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodmyst Ranwar
- All mode bonuses should be kept for now. Let it play out longer until we see Assault Frigs get a buff and the new T2 Dessies.

- I would have really like if they kept the same insurance and price point. Risk adverse play is just a parasite imo.

- Two glaring nerfs that I believe are welcome right now, the Snipe instalock Svipul fit needs to be looked at. The scan res and/or alpha damage absolutely needs a nerf. I think many are in agreeance with this.

- The oversized AB Confessor fit, don't think there is much of an issue with it. Honestly 50/50 on this, simply because a PG nerf is just too much. The confessor is in a really good place right now, I'd like to see it stay where it is.

- Please do not touch how the modes work. They are fine as it is, if you can't work out how to force a T3D pilot into a mode, thats on you. Also, why is the instawarp a problem? Just get a point on it........


I would really hate to see T3D's pigeon holed into a specific role. Please don't destroy something that is so much fun (fingers crossed).


EDIT: Just restrict oversized AB's on all T3D's.
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-10-08 23:31:16 UTC
Bloodmyst Ranwar wrote:
- All mode bonuses should be kept for now. Let it play out longer until we see Assault Frigs get a buff and the new T2 Dessies.

- I would have really like if they kept the same insurance and price point. Risk adverse play is just a parasite imo.

- Two glaring nerfs that I believe are welcome right now, the Snipe instalock Svipul fit needs to be looked at. The scan res and/or alpha damage absolutely needs a nerf. I think many are in agreeance with this.

- The oversized AB Confessor fit, don't think there is much of an issue with it. Honestly 50/50 on this, simply because a PG nerf is just too much. The confessor is in a really good place right now, I'd like to see it stay where it is.

- Please do not touch how the modes work. They are fine as it is, if you can't work out how to force a T3D pilot into a mode, thats on you. Also, why is the instawarp a problem? Just get a point on it........


I would really hate to see T3D's pigeon holed into a specific role. Please don't destroy something that is so much fun (fingers crossed).




Assault Frigates are getting a buff?
Link?

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#65 - 2015-10-09 00:42:50 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
Assault Frigates are getting a buff?
Link?


They will, at some point. Just not in the near future. Maybe 2018-ish?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-10-09 07:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
If the 66% bonus to velocity while in propulsion mode was replaced with a warp speed bonus, would T3Ds still be viable/fixed? To keep the ship balanced between frigates and cruisers, the base speed would need to be buffed of course.

On the insta-lock issue, i don't think the ability for destroyers to lock frigates fast is an issue, given that there job is to kill frigates.
Esnaelc Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
#67 - 2015-10-09 13:19:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Esnaelc Sin'led
Johnny Riko wrote:

Assault Frigates are getting a buff?
Link?


CCP talked about it in a o7 Show this summer., and never mentioned it again.
As usual... Anouncing things that never come, or just super super late.
And i thought they would stop doing that .. (refering to last FanFest).

Anyway, thinking that removing T3Ds from Small FW plexes would leave more space to AFs is completly stupid, if you are not buffing them BEFORE doing that change.

First buff AFs.
Then see how it's going.
Then ban T3D from Smalls if necessary despite buff.

That's just a way to avoid working on AFs globally.

*sigh*

Also, the only T3D right now that could be concidered OP is .. again .. the Svipul.
Can fit
- 2 utility module (2 neuts)
- 1 oversized prop.
- 1 oversized shield booster.

For just one single low slot sacrificed.
Odracir Atosc
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#68 - 2015-10-09 14:09:01 UTC
4chan SlashPOL wrote:
Odracir Atosc wrote:
I think its a bit ridiculous that johndrees is in this group because the only thing that he understands is hot droping nothing else.


And the only thing that CVA members know how to do is bling marauders to be more expensive than a carrier...


And the only thing that your alliance seams to do is losing more ships than it kills
Odracir Atosc
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#69 - 2015-10-09 14:13:14 UTC
JOhnDrees wrote:
Odracir Atosc wrote:
I think its a bit ridiculous that johndrees is in this group because the only thing that he understands is hot droping nothing else.


I have quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. I do enjoy a good hotdrop though.


You have like 2 videos of you killing without hotdroping but all the rest is you guys go after very easy targets and posting on youtube as if you were doing something really hard.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#70 - 2015-10-09 14:42:29 UTC
I would agree that the Svi needs to sacrifice something more in order to fit oversize AB.
As much as I would like to restrict mounting oversize AB to T3d's altogether, I'm guessing that would serious curb T3D's use as a brawler. For snipers it probably wouldn't matter, I've never been able to put together a reasonable beam confessor fitting with oversize AB. I Never needed more than 1mn Mwd anyways.

Keep in mind the roadmap for CCP. There's at least two major things that come to mind that I know are going to impact my T3D use: the balance pass that just happened with battlecruisers, and the new destroyers coming out (in particular the microjumping capability which will likely end a LOT of kiting/sniping meta)
Esnaelc Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
#71 - 2015-10-09 15:18:01 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
(in particular the microjumping capability which will likely end a LOT of kiting/sniping meta)


That depends a LOT on the mecanics that could come out of that.
Timer ?
Fitting requirement ?
Cooldown ?
Range ?
You land at 0 speed ? Full speed ?
Etc etc etc.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#72 - 2015-10-09 15:25:51 UTC
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#73 - 2015-10-09 15:50:36 UTC
All the hate for oversized abs, they are not the problem and never were - for anything. Yeah when a confessor handled with them as if it was a mwd cruiser it wasnt great, but those days are over.

Oversized ab ships are all around good for the game.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#74 - 2015-10-09 16:29:12 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
All the hate for oversized abs, they are not the problem and never were - for anything. Yeah when a confessor handled with them as if it was a mwd cruiser it wasnt great, but those days are over.

Oversized ab ships are all around good for the game.


I'd rather prefer oversized AB remaining as a niche tactic that requires significant dedication to become viable, like Jackdaws with links and snakes, not a totally redundant fit like you can realize it on a disposable svipul.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#75 - 2015-10-09 16:43:20 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design


Your unreasonable hatred for all things T3 has been noted.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Esnaelc Sin'led
Lonesome Capsuleer
#76 - 2015-10-09 16:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Esnaelc Sin'led
Harvey James wrote:
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design


1- Nope. It would kill lots and lots of particular fits around this principle.
2- Nope. ABs are good as they are, even if a bit too slow, they can't be cut off by a point. MWDs have significant fitting and capacitor penalty.
3- This has been done already.
4- Maybe for the Svipul only, but it would kill its Arty version.
5- That's a destroyer class ship. It is MEANT to deal damage.
6- What ?

If the issue comes out when you compare T3Ds to AFs, the issue are the AFs, not the T3Ds.
Why ?
Because AFs were ALREADY not that good before T3Ds were introduced.
And honestly i've flown each T3Ds (at my level), and i could only see the Svipul standing over the others, by far du to its 'wide' fitting capacity.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#77 - 2015-10-09 16:51:05 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
All the hate for oversized abs, they are not the problem and never were - for anything. Yeah when a confessor handled with them as if it was a mwd cruiser it wasnt great, but those days are over.

Oversized ab ships are all around good for the game.


I agree the Confessor is now the "fast kid" in the schoolyard and 2400m/s is not even a related to as fast. I think the Confessor suffered enough.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#78 - 2015-10-09 17:25:48 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design


Your unreasonable hatred for all things T3 has been noted.


unreasonable eh? ... how about T3's obsolete the majority of ships they even vaguely complete with is that not a good enough reason?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#79 - 2015-10-09 17:29:52 UTC
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design


1- Nope. It would kill lots and lots of particular fits around this principle.
2- Nope. ABs are good as they are, even if a bit too slow, they can't be cut off by a point. MWDs have significant fitting and capacitor penalty.
3- This has been done already.
4- Maybe for the Svipul only, but it would kill its Arty version.
5- That's a destroyer class ship. It is MEANT to deal damage.
6- What ?

If the issue comes out when you compare T3Ds to AFs, the issue are the AFs, not the T3Ds.
Why ?
Because AFs were ALREADY not that good before T3Ds were introduced.
And honestly i've flown each T3Ds (at my level), and i could only see the Svipul standing over the others, by far du to its 'wide' fitting capacity.


2 - i said modes not prop mods, i.e. def/prop/sharpshooter modes.
3- they barely touched them
4- depends perhaps a little on 1 but its well noted just how strong their pg is.
5 - a hecate doing 750dps OH is sooo OP, and why should they get such a OP bonus for nothing anyway its bad design
6 - T2 resists should be exclusive too T2 , T3 T1 and navy should all have the base resists only.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#80 - 2015-10-09 18:00:06 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
suggestions

- make all prop mods size specific
- nerf all modes a little
- nerf all base stats a little
- nerf fittings a little
- remove 50% damage role bonus
- remove T2 resists

so the end result should mean they cant outperform any T2 ships like AF's etc at what they do best but they will still have the adaptability and generalisation that is meant too be the point rather than having stronger than T2 power on top of the T3 design


1- Nope. It would kill lots and lots of particular fits around this principle.
2- Nope. ABs are good as they are, even if a bit too slow, they can't be cut off by a point. MWDs have significant fitting and capacitor penalty.
3- This has been done already.
4- Maybe for the Svipul only, but it would kill its Arty version.
5- That's a destroyer class ship. It is MEANT to deal damage.
6- What ?

If the issue comes out when you compare T3Ds to AFs, the issue are the AFs, not the T3Ds.
Why ?
Because AFs were ALREADY not that good before T3Ds were introduced.
And honestly i've flown each T3Ds (at my level), and i could only see the Svipul standing over the others, by far du to its 'wide' fitting capacity.


2 - i said modes not prop mods, i.e. def/prop/sharpshooter modes.
3- they barely touched them
4- depends perhaps a little on 1 but its well noted just how strong their pg is.
5 - a hecate doing 750dps OH is sooo OP, and why should they get such a OP bonus for nothing anyway its bad design
6 - T2 resists should be exclusive too T2 , T3 T1 and navy should all have the base resists only.


Harvey, are you the old CCP? Do you know of any other method of balancing other than nerfing something into oblivion? I see your posts, and for every topic its a list of nerfs everytime.

A hecate is not OP, id actually say its one of the better balanced t3d. The dps it can shoot is only good to about 2-5km unless you go into sharpshooter mode. Ive killed hecates in ac nados, kiting them at 7-10km and ruining them. Hecates are slow as hell, put a web or two on them, get around 7-10km and get a KM. Even easier if youre in a bigger ship with neuts.

Please look at the other numbers in eft besides dps, and you will see the hecate is well balanced. Svipul mainly needs either a bigger sig or slower base speed or speed bonus from prop mode