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[Focus Group] Tactical Destroyers

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-10-07 16:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Quote:
All four Tactical Destroyers have been out for a little while now and we're of course planning on making more adjustments to the class over the coming months. To help with this task we intend to put together a focus group on T3Ds that will help provide feedback (especially subjective feedback) on the current state of these ships and on potential future changes.

We will use this forum thread to accept applications from players who wish to participate in the focus group
The decision on which players are invited to the focus group will be made by CCP
This focus group will not receive any secret information, and therefore will not be required to sign any NDAs
We plan on making the logs of the focus group chat public for everyone to view. Everyone can see what is being discussed, but only focus group members and CCP devs can actually talk
When selecting focus group members, we will be looking for people who can demonstrate the ability to communicate effectively and provide reasoned and calm feedback. We also want the members to have significant experience flying the Tactical Destroyers and to have strong knowledge of EVE gameplay, fittings and balance
The focus group will take place in a Slack team, so members will need to be able to use Slack

We are hoping that using a focus group of this type will allow us to quickly and easily gather feedback from players who have a strong breadth and depth of experience with the ships. If this group goes well, similar formats might be used for other focus groups on other topics.

Focus group members will not be forced to attend any meetings or to pass any minimum activity thresholds. People in any time zone are welcome.

Huge thanks to everyone who applied to the focus group in the previous thread. We have selected 16 members to start the group. We may add more members over time as needed.

I'll use this thread to list the players who have been invited to the focus group, to post links to the chatlogs, and to allow the general playerbase to discuss and provide feedback on what they read in those logs.


EDIT: Removed Sticky ISD Max Trix

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2015-10-07 16:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
The current list of players invited to the focus group are as follows:

  • Ascentior
  • Chessur
  • Destoya
  • Fintarue
  • Forsot
  • Gorski Car
  • Hoodie Mafia
  • JOhnDrees
  • Johnny Twelvebore
  • Namamai
  • Sard Caid
  • Scipio Artelius
  • Selto Black
  • SFM Hobb3s
  • Suitonia
  • Syenna Celeste

In addition, Mike Azariah will be in the channel as an observer to see what works and what doesn't for the benefit of future focus groups.

I'll be sending evemails to each of you shortly asking for what emails you prefer your slack invite to be sent to.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2015-10-07 16:52:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
The focus group members are free to discuss whatever topics related to T3Ds that they wish, but CCP will also be providing questions for the group to help get discussion going.

The first question I've proposed to the group is:

Quote:
Consider the option of trying to push the mode switching mechanic further into the forefront. Encouraging more switching in an average fight, and more of a performance difference between a pilot who knows how to mode switch well and one that doesn't (which would hopefully raise the skill level required to get something similar to current performance) can you guys:

  1. Point out opportunities you see to encourage that kind of gameplay
  2. Point out issues that are holding it back (for instance common situations where people spend most of the fight in one mode)
  3. Think about whether that goal is one you think will lead to better gameplay for both T3D pilots and those fighting against them (basically, should that be a priority of this balance pass)

For instance, one idea we've been bouncing around internally would be shifting some of the damage bonuses into the sharpshooter mode to provide more reasons to enter and exit that mode multiple times in a fight

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2015-10-07 16:52:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Important information from the focus group so far:

I'll start us off with one tidbit that we've already decided on (so that it doesn't derail other discussion): We plan on reducing Tactical Destroyer insurance payouts to T2 levels (30% of current payout) in the December release.

As mentioned in the latest CSM summit minutes, we are also planning on removing Tactical Destroyers from Small FW complexes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Selto Black
Apotheosis.
#5 - 2015-10-07 17:42:31 UTC
Well, time to the lamb amongst lions.
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#6 - 2015-10-07 17:48:42 UTC
I don’t think T3Ds are in an altogether broken place but there are certainly a few things that could be done to make them more vulnerable and to restore the Assault Frigate to a viable ship class instead of always preferring a T3D.
The two biggest ideas I hope you can bring up and discuss at the focus meetings are the following:

New Mode Bonuses Take Effect at the End of Cool-Down Timer instead of Immediately
Please discuss changing when a mode’s bonuses take effect to the end of a mode-transition cycle instead of immediately after hitting the button. Doing so would eliminate the insta-warp trick on gates (essentially the nullified interdiction of low-sec). It also really forces players to make a better pre-meditated choice on transitioning modes which I think was the original goal behind the design (e.g. I can’t just use propulsion mode to dive bomb in for tackle and then instantly turtle up in defensive mode once I land a scram). In that situation they almost get the best of both worlds instead of having to make a conscious trade-off between the two sets of bonuses. I personally think having the new mode bonus take effect at the end of the timer instead of immediately at the beginning would help quite bit but perhaps longer “cool down timers” could aide this as well.

Exile T3Ds from Small Faction Warfare Complexes
This is commonly supported amongst pilots in the Faction Warfare community and also would help the Assault Frigate reclaim some of its niche.

Thanks!

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2015-10-07 18:05:06 UTC
I know a bunch of those names! Hope this experiment goes well.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#8 - 2015-10-07 18:16:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Important information from the focus group so far:

I'll start us off with one tidbit that we've already decided on (so that it doesn't derail other discussion): We plan on reducing Tactical Destroyer insurance payouts to T2 levels (30% of current payout) in the December release.

As mentioned in the latest CSM summit minutes, we are also planning on removing Tactical Destroyers from Small FW complexes.


that kind of suggests you're going too barely touch them, when we all know they need as big a nerf bat as T3 cruisers do.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#9 - 2015-10-07 18:42:17 UTC
I freely admit that this has nothing to do with the thread, but there are so many stickies right now that the forum only has room for ten player made posts on the entire front page.

These need to be conglomerated somewhere, with a sticky that links to any active ones, rather than keeping them all on the front page. It's just too much.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-10-07 18:57:31 UTC
I suggest that every time someone uses the word 'cancer' or variant thereof, we fine them 500m isk and donate the proceeds to plex for good.

Mike can keep score.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2015-10-07 19:03:11 UTC
Wait, how high was T3D insurance already at?
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-10-07 19:03:30 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I suggest that every time someone uses the word 'cancer' or variant thereof, we fine them 500m isk and donate the proceeds to plex for good.

Mike can keep score.


You just want to empty Suitonia's pockets.

As for the thread, looking forward to the logs. And to see if this works.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#13 - 2015-10-07 19:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
The main reason T3 destroyers are so good in my view is they are so ISK efficient in terms of insurance.

In terms of the actual ships themselves I'd say they are in a pretty good place. Assault frigates really need looking at though as since T3s there is really no need to use them.

Assault frigates need buffs and then that change alone should push T3s into a much better place in terms of the meta.

Looking forward to the results of these discussions though. It is good to see CCP trying to involve the community.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#14 - 2015-10-07 19:32:13 UTC
The Jackdaw. :( Caldari lub, please. :(

(totally unbiased. totally.)

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-10-07 19:52:38 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I suggest that every time someone uses the word 'cancer' or variant thereof, we fine them 500m isk and donate the proceeds to plex for good.

Mike can keep score.


I want a score of that even if there is no ISK fines.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#16 - 2015-10-07 20:01:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Important information from the focus group so far:
As mentioned in the latest CSM summit minutes, we are also planning on removing Tactical Destroyers from Small FW complexes.


Excellent news :)

The Tears Must Flow
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-10-07 20:24:24 UTC
I think the biggest problem with Tactical destroyer is that nothing can kill them other than other Tactical destroyers. They utterly obliterate anything small than them and larger ships cannot hit something moving that fast.
JOhnDrees
Deep Axion
Honorable Third Party
#18 - 2015-10-07 22:01:36 UTC
Ultra excited to be included in this! I promise I'm going to contribute my absolute best to this thing. Wooot!!!
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#19 - 2015-10-07 22:22:30 UTC
Gorski has a good article published on Crossing Zebras:

http://crossingzebras.com/refining-tactical-destroyers/
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#20 - 2015-10-08 00:06:47 UTC
i enjoyed fighting t3ds. thinking about ways how to bring the target into a mode he does not want to be was fairly challenging. I am a bit sad that they will be removed from small plexes but i also see why its the easier solution compared with the attempt to balance them (which actually costs devtime).

i don't quite see how t3ds are in any way related to AFs, because before t3ds we flew interdictors if we wanted something solid and also can enter small plexes.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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