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Q-ships
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Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-11 04:15:03 UTC
Griefing in Highsec's nothing new, ganking miners in low and 0.0 space is old hat.

What about Q-ships?

Q-Ships are a naval method that's pretty old in real life, a warship built to look like a commercial freighter (in this case an ORE barge, industrial or industrial command ship), mixed in with the civvies, a Q-ship invites attack and then goes berserk with real weaponry to savage attacking vessels. Hell give them just enough mining capacity to put on a good show, but not enough to make them even as effective as a cruiser with miner 2's.

Why not run things like that? Give the miners a chance to play PvP people so desperately want them to swap over to.

I'd pay money to have an orca/hulk fleet that looked like miners but was really playing bait for gankers with real firepower and tank under the hoods. Hell I'd love to fly 'em. During Hulkageddon no less. Twisted

Only problem with the concept is really lock times, and Ewar. By the time a battlecruiser sized industrial Q-ship had lock concord's already there, or yer already dead.

But I'm sure people would object to trying to gank mining fleets with actual teeth. Or not being able to pick out the pathetic carebears from the real fighters. it'd also give those of us who like a chance to shoot back a shot.

Hell, make training for the ships the same as training for ORE ships. And make them cheaper to build than the mining monstrosities.
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-12-11 04:28:52 UTC
Hulk's have drones, drones can kill destroyers. Problem solved.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-11 04:30:08 UTC
scan, see guns, move on

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-11 04:30:51 UTC
Revii Lagoon wrote:
Hulk's have drones, drones can kill destroyers. Problem solved.


you're hilarious.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2011-12-11 04:41:15 UTC
Andski wrote:
scan, see guns, move on



That's why you'd need a way to spoof the scan. Perhaps a module that can give a specific readout.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-11 04:43:44 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Andski wrote:
scan, see guns, move on



That's why you'd need a way to spoof the scan. Perhaps a module that can give a specific readout.


would be nice wouldn't it? Something a little more creative than a cloaking device? false sensor readings, to make that battleship floating a hundred klicks out look like a fully-loaded hauler coming back to sell/unload. Won't fool a zoom-in visual look, but a Q-ship would fool the visual. it looks like an industrial rig.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#7 - 2011-12-11 04:45:55 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
Griefing in Highsec's nothing new
Have you tried reporting them?

Griefing isn't allowed in EVE, after all, so you can just get them banned…


As for your idea, it wouldn't be used because of the lower/non-existent yield. If you want something along those lines, you can already construct it from existing ships.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-11 04:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
Tippia wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
Griefing in Highsec's nothing new
Have you tried reporting them?

Griefing isn't allowed in EVE, after all, so you can just get them banned…


As for your idea, it wouldn't be used because of the lower/non-existent yield. If you want something along those lines, you can already construct it from existing ships.


call it what it is, griefing. but suicide ganking would be bannable if CCP saw it as griefing. It's clear that they don't so the real thing would be to give people ways to make it harder. You hear the suicide gankers laughing about how easy it is!

Because it really is pitifully easy.

Plus i don't report them as griefers because no matter how much they enrage me personally, I want botminers to burn. getting them banned for suicide ganking means all the little botpukes get a free pass in high sec.

But I'd like to see a way for people who aren't AFK botmining to make life harder on the gankers. Might risk our precious ships even in the middle of hulkageddon if it weren't for the alphastrike of death that industrials cannot survive that ganker ships are designed to deliver.

Even if it's something stupid like a module that cranks up your defenses to 11 while eating a quarter of your cap every 10-20 seconds. can't keep it running all the time, but you can certainly survive till concord gets there.

Bot miners are a bit less likely to survive because you wouldn't be able to keep it running forever.

But i think I like the Q-ships idea better than the short-burst invulnerable defense. it doesn't reek of being a complete candyass. Plus it delivers the fight the PvP gankers claim so desperately that they want here on the forums.

Even though they don't troll warships in highsec.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#9 - 2011-12-11 05:01:19 UTC
Fit an Exequor with neuts and 1 mining laser (for show) and have combat drones in the hold. Pretend to jet can mine then when someone comes along and steals your can, yell ITS A TRAP in local and attack them.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-11 05:05:13 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Fit an Exequor with neuts and 1 mining laser (for show) and have combat drones in the hold. Pretend to jet can mine then when someone comes along and steals your can, yell ITS A TRAP in local and attack them.


I'm not worried about can flippers. gankers don't generally bother to flip your can before they start spraying you with death.

But your idea makes me smile. I'll have to remember it.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#11 - 2011-12-11 05:07:16 UTC
Well such an idea would make for great bait ships.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2011-12-11 05:15:38 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
call it what it is, griefing.
If it's griefing, you should report them.
If it's not griefing, you should stop calling it such since it just makes you look uninformed.

Quote:
but suicide ganking would be bannable if CCP saw it as griefing. It's clear that they don't so the real thing would be to give people ways to make it harder.
So why is that needed?

Quote:
But I'd like to see a way for people who aren't AFK botmining to make life harder on the gankers.
You can already do this. Mining from a BS is one way; actually tanking your Exhumer is another; and anything available to you will also be available to the botminer, so good luck trying to separate the two. The means already exist, but as the years have shown, people refuse to use them because it cuts into their holy yield.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-12-11 05:17:31 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Well such an idea would make for great bait ships.




kinda the point. I'd rather be fighting bait than a sitting duck any day, even if it did chop into my isk per hour. Shooting back is more fun than being a target any day of the month.

Part of the problem is training times. This is why a hefty number of new players start mining, IMHO. What takes longer? getting fully set to fight in a ship that won't melt, or gettting into a mining ship and going out to make some ISK so you can buy the gear you want and play hardmode later?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2011-12-11 05:25:06 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
[Part of the problem is training times. […] What takes longer? getting fully set to fight in a ship that won't melt, or gettting into a mining ship and going out to make some ISK so you can buy the gear you want and play hardmode later?

In terms of training time? Mining. The difference is that mining requires next to no knowledge about game mechanics and those take a little time to learn…

So if there's a problem with training time, it's with the player, not the character, and that mining at no point pushes you or requires you to learn anything so that player ignorance takes a whole lot longer to get out of.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-12-11 05:29:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaylyis
Tippia wrote:
[If it's griefing, you should report them.
If it's not griefing, you should stop calling it such since it just makes you look uninformed.


At this point it is a difference of opinion. I have mine, you have yours, CCP has theirs.

At this point CCPs is the only one that matters.

And as far as Hulks go, please link me a hulk fit that will survive 6-10 thrashers porting artillery long enough to allow concord to kill them, or to escape to warp. those tubs are pretty slow, and that's what the local gankers are using for their fun tiemz.

hell while we're at it anyone got an orca tank fit that can survive a serious pounding to the tune of minutes + versus cheap battleship attackers or mass-attack destroyers?

Hell from what i understand most of the gankers escape before concord crushes them. I cannot confirm this rumor, because i have not seen it, nor heard it from a reliable source.

No I don't consider forums a reliable source.

I'm more than willing to hack into my bottom line in exchange for a survivable situation.

Lose 5 mil an hour because I chose to have a hardpoint in space, or lose a 200-400 mil ship (before modules) because it cuts my bottom line? given an average orca load nets me about 20 mil, I'd say the massive deep space hardpoint option wins.

Edit: also what skills need to be trained to make these modules relevant and effective? I am sick and tired of playing guessing games.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#16 - 2011-12-11 06:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Vachir Khan
You can't 100% avoid being killed but, as with most things in EVE, you can lower the chance of it happening. If you fit your Hulk with tank you'll be less of a target than most and they'll probably move on to something easier, and the firepower needed to kill that tanked hulk will EASILY show up on your short range set Dscanner so you can react. This all boils down to not wanting to put in effort, not willing to adapt your fit and not having learned any sort of game mechanics.

- find a system that doesn't have heavy traffic
- use a belt that's outside scan range of stations and gates
- set your Dscanner to something like 450m km and keep scanning, anything that shows up is probably heading your way because of the first 2 points
- pay attention (ie, actually use that Dscanner every 5 seconds or so)
- have a decently fit hulk just in case you missed something (don't have your fit be your defense, for the same reason as you shouldn't have a WCS be your defense against getting tackled)


Look here, not super tanked but also didn't fully lose it's yield (holy crap, you mean that tanking my ship means I'll lose yield, oh fck no!)


[Hulk, Tanked]
Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Small Shield Extender II
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Invulnerability Field II
Survey Scanner II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I



It really isn't fcking difficult, it just takes some effort and, lets be honest, miners didn't pick up mining as a pass time because they like putting in effort.
Bieber Holocaust Girl
#17 - 2011-12-11 06:38:09 UTC
q-ships are nothing new in eve

"gankers" dont care if you fight back since they lose the ships anyway

most decent combat pilots would rather just roam instead of sitting around in a belt waiting to be attacked by disposable ships
Jita Alt666
#18 - 2011-12-11 06:52:54 UTC
Kaylyis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[If it's griefing, you should report them.
If it's not griefing, you should stop calling it such since it just makes you look uninformed.


At this point it is a difference of opinion. I have mine, you have yours, CCP has theirs.

At this point CCPs is the only one that matters.


Except you have somehow not realised that Tippia is merely regurgitating CCP's opinion.
Kaylyis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-11 07:03:46 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Kaylyis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[If it's griefing, you should report them.
If it's not griefing, you should stop calling it such since it just makes you look uninformed.


At this point it is a difference of opinion. I have mine, you have yours, CCP has theirs.

At this point CCPs is the only one that matters.


Except you have somehow not realised that Tippia is merely regurgitating CCP's opinion.


hence, no real reason to belabor it, shake fists or call the waaaaahmbulance. I have an opinion. it does not mesh with the powers that be. I will get the **** over it. I was looking for more constructive ideas than OMG griefers in highsec oh noes!

I'd rather learn to thumb my nose at them and fly off with an intact hull, or shoot them and burn feeling good about myself than go cry to mommy for a nerf. doesn't need a nerf, needs viable response. hence asked about a fit. Don't give a crap if I have to lose mining output to do it. Mining's never been my first love in EVE, it's just a means to an end. just like missioning. just like waiting for months to train up my combat skills. only difference is while i'm training my combat skills now I have a viable source of income rather than "you must be this tall to fly this level 4 mission"

Plus I hate botminers and RMT. If I gotta put up with a few ship losses or near-misses so a few more of them die, I'll fit for survival, figure out this ******* Dscanner and deal with it. it's just a ***** for those of use who want to, you know... play the game.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#20 - 2011-12-11 07:04:13 UTC
Just one example, The Adventures of the Iteron of Death, and many more.
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