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In Response to Sugar Kyle - Highsec development

First post First post
Author
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2015-10-12 16:29:03 UTC

Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Even assuming that there is a zero-sum contribution to interaction, destruction-creation economy, and long term fun (as you listed above), I still would prefer no interaction + $14.95 towards the game than no interaction + $0.00 towards the game. A subscription is a contribution.


CCP Quant and CCP Rise have found that the no-interaction playerbase have the greatest chance of leaving the game.

That $14.95 from them is temporary, and their needs don't contribute to any long term survivability of the game.



Indy is now sharing pictures of girls. Nice Blink

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Arthur Hannigen
#262 - 2015-10-12 17:55:37 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Even assuming that there is a zero-sum contribution to interaction, destruction-creation economy, and long term fun (as you listed above), I still would prefer no interaction + $14.95 towards the game than no interaction + $0.00 towards the game. A subscription is a contribution.


CCP Quant and CCP Rise have found that the no-interaction playerbase have the greatest chance of leaving the game.

That $14.95 from them is temporary, and their needs don't contribute to any long term survivability of the game.



Indy is now sharing pictures of girls. Nice Blink



Well, I obviously don't have all of the details. But what I can say with certainty is that there hasn't been any significant development toward solo/PVE play in a while and that may be the reason why players aren't sticking around.

If they bring no contribution to CCP, then kick 'em all out. I've cancelled my subscriptions myself and I'm ready to move on. That should make a few of you hardcores happy.

The only good bear is an unsubscribed bear! Bear
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#263 - 2015-10-12 18:30:47 UTC
Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Even assuming that there is a zero-sum contribution to interaction, destruction-creation economy, and long term fun (as you listed above), I still would prefer no interaction + $14.95 towards the game than no interaction + $0.00 towards the game. A subscription is a contribution.


CCP Quant and CCP Rise have found that the no-interaction playerbase have the greatest chance of leaving the game.

That $14.95 from them is temporary, and their needs don't contribute to any long term survivability of the game.



Indy is now sharing pictures of girls. Nice Blink



Well, I obviously don't have all of the details. But what I can say with certainty is that there hasn't been any significant development toward solo/PVE play in a while and that may be the reason why players aren't sticking around.


This is untrue, Burner Missions are pure solo content, people are still working out ways to beat them solo..

Quote:

If they bring no contribution to CCP, then kick 'em all out. I've cancelled my subscriptions myself and I'm ready to move on. That should make a few of you hardcores happy.

The only good bear is an unsubscribed bear! Bear


Some people try to make it 'hard core vs casual' or 'pvp vs pve' but it's none of that. It's the 'people suited to playing EVE long term' crowd vs the 'spoonfed instant gratification crowd'.

It's only because of CCPs turn to try to gain these types starting around 2008 (the real beginning of CCPs unsuccessful grab for glory that started with "group PVE" and finally starting to implement WiS) that got so many of them to come here in the 1st place. CCP soon learned that trying to replace an existing loyal playerbase with a potentially larger but distinctly disloyal (low attention span) audience was a bad idea and partially pulled out of that steep dive before it was too late. But they still seem to me to sometimes be on the edge of temptation when it comes to the issue...like they are only 5 seconds from throwing in the towel and saying 'screw it, lets go themepark and milk that crowd for all it's worth for a few years before it all comes crashing down"...
firefox1967
The Banshee Chapter
Pain And Compliance
#264 - 2015-10-12 18:59:15 UTC
I was having this conversation today with one of my work mates, i come from the purely PVP side of things and I hear and have read some of the arguments posted in this thread.

Over the years we have had some of the best fun doing highsec war decks, granted you have to wait for a good one to happen and you need the other corp to want to participate which is why we always went for other groups that far outnumbered us.

What we discussed today was this, what if corporations fought to own high sec systems, if you own the system it still carries on as it ever did PVE continues, mining continues, hauling and every other trade that goes on there already just carries on the only difference would be that if you pass through a system owned by a corporation then you automatically pay the owners a small fee, I dont know lets say 100 Isk.

Owners would not be allowed to have more than 30 members in their corp/alliance, and disputes would need to be sorted within the system being distputed.

Owners would be able to own as many systems as they could handle or defend, as with war decs at the moment anyone wanting to take a system would need to wardec the current owners and at least one engagement would have to take place where at least 50% of both warring corporations would have to take part, this could be a mutually agreed time and at the end of the week the winner is the one who kills the most ships.

who knows it may encourage a few carebears to get involved as well as there may be some profit involved, imagine owning Jita.

Just a thought anyway so dont shoot me for making a suggestion.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#265 - 2015-10-12 19:49:06 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Even assuming that there is a zero-sum contribution to interaction, destruction-creation economy, and long term fun (as you listed above), I still would prefer no interaction + $14.95 towards the game than no interaction + $0.00 towards the game. A subscription is a contribution.


CCP Quant and CCP Rise have found that the no-interaction playerbase have the greatest chance of leaving the game.

That $14.95 from them is temporary, and their needs don't contribute to any long term survivability of the game.



Indy is now sharing pictures of girls. Nice Blink



How can they contribute when their only way to contribute is to stop playing the game they're playing?

EVE is a subscription service, and subcription services are measured as the service is provided to the customer. CCP is giving a poor service to a majority of customers, and their excuse is that some other customers are getting a great service and customers are free to pick what service they use.

"Your PvE sucks!"
"But our PvP is great..."
"Your solo gameplay sucks!"
"But our multiplay is great..."
"Your Highsec gameplay sucks!"
"But the other areas are great..."
"Your money comes mostly from Highsec Solo PvE!"
"But we're making... after all... Art."
"Art isn't sustainable without Commercial"
"We hope to turn Art into our Commercial"
"That would betray the people who's been buying your Commercial..."
"That's the price of Art. We are the freak redhead in the party!"
"You'll be a unemployed, forgotten freak redhead once you lose your Commercial"
"Let's pretend that that will never happen, shall we...?" *smiles and winks*
"Dammit..." *shakes head*
(Who are these two?)
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#266 - 2015-10-12 19:56:14 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Arthur Hannigen wrote:
Even assuming that there is a zero-sum contribution to interaction, destruction-creation economy, and long term fun (as you listed above), I still would prefer no interaction + $14.95 towards the game than no interaction + $0.00 towards the game. A subscription is a contribution.


CCP Quant and CCP Rise have found that the no-interaction playerbase have the greatest chance of leaving the game.

That $14.95 from them is temporary, and their needs don't contribute to any long term survivability of the game.



Indy is now sharing pictures of girls. Nice Blink



How can they contribute when their only way to contribute is to stop playing the game they're playing?

EVE is a subscription service, and subcription services are measured as the service is provided to the customer. CCP is giving a poor service to a majority of customers, and their excuse is that some other customers are getting a great service and customers are free to pick what service they use.

"Your PvE sucks!"
"But our PvP is great..."
"Your solo gameplay sucks!"
"But our multiplay is great..."
"Your Highsec gameplay sucks!"
"But the other areas are great..."
"Your money comes mostly from Highsec Solo PvE!"
"But we're making... after all... Art."
"Art isn't sustainable without Commercial"
"We hope to turn Art into our Commercial"
"That would betray the people who's been buying your Commercial..."
"That's the price of Art. We are the freak redhead in the party!"
"You'll be a unemployed, forgotten freak redhead once you lose your Commercial"
"Let's pretend that that will never happen, shall we...?" *smiles and winks*
"Dammit..." *shakes head*
(Who are these two?)


You believe CCP is screwing you (they aren't, you are screwing yourself) and have believed this for years and yet you stay subscribed.

This is because you have manipulative ways, ie you think you can convince people to change to suit you, so in your mind you are justified in living miserably (if EVE didn't make you miserable you would not complain about it all the time) because one day they (CCP) will see the light and give you what you want.

The most ironic thing about it all is that if CCP did give you all you want, you'd stop playing EVE, because you'd have nothing to be angry about anymore.
BrundleMeth
Black Parrot
Sylvanas Super mercenary
#267 - 2015-10-12 20:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: BrundleMeth
Max Fubarticus wrote:
I read the SK blog and found nothing new or Eve shattering that points to a specific issue (s) that require High Security space to be buffed / nerfed. So this thread is nothing more than a continuation of earlier ones lamenting Wardecs, gankers and other nonsense. Lets put this in the proper perspective.
"Eve is a PVP centric game you moron!" That is a quote from a player yesterday in Amarr space who was engaged in a heated debate with others in local. The subject? You guessed it! F1 monkeys versus carebears ideology. The problem is not that a particular aspect of HS is broke. It is the narrow mindset from both groups of players.

" Leave me alone, I just want to mine and build stuff. I don't want to socially interact with you. I don't like to PVP." OR "come out and fight! Stop whining and dropping Corp to avoid me. Risk averse babies"

Neither side is right or wrong. Their argument is "you are not playing the game as I see it"
What's wrong... the incessant whining and infantile arguments that have nothing to do with Eve game play as a WHOLE.
Exit soapbox------>

Max

The problem is this will never change...ever...

I refuse to play how others want me to play, whatever they want. I really want to be back in a Null Sec Corp. But applying to get into a Corp is a bloody nightmare. And the politics of many if not most Corps is crap. Then spending 3 hours getting ready for a roam just so half the guys can drop out because of wife aggro, or running to dock up because you run into a larger group. It all gets to be a drag...
firefox1967
The Banshee Chapter
Pain And Compliance
#268 - 2015-10-12 21:09:58 UTC
i logged on for the first time in ages tonight, only 30 thousand other players logged on at a time when there used to be around 50 thousand, half of that 30 thousand are most probably alts.

if you were running CCP and you were looking at those figures would you not be worried and listening to what people have to say or would you just ignore them and pretend everything is ok.
Memphis Baas
#269 - 2015-10-13 00:45:25 UTC
Maybe they are worried, but there is no correlation between the (decrease in) the playerbase numbers and the "quality" of ideas posted, on these forums or Reddit or anywhere.

Honestly, they have moderators to sift through forums and forward worthwhile ideas, they have the CSM as a feedback mechanism, they have that "why did you cancel subscription" questionnaire (whatever its worth), and they have internal metrics that tell them which kinds of EVE gameplay are popular and which are not.

They can panic if they want to, but listening to forums would be a bad idea.

EDIT: In my opinion, the reduced playerbase isn't because of high-sec; I think it's because the big 0.0 alliances are in limbo as far as starting fun wars, until the sov, structure, and capital ship changes are fully deployed. This thread is pretty much off-topic for this year; this CSM was pretty much elected for nullsec issues, and CCP was going to focus on nullsec changes. And they better hurry with them.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#270 - 2015-10-13 02:16:31 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Maybe they are worried, but there is no correlation between the (decrease in) the playerbase numbers and the "quality" of ideas posted, on these forums or Reddit or anywhere.

Honestly, they have moderators to sift through forums and forward worthwhile ideas, they have the CSM as a feedback mechanism, they have that "why did you cancel subscription" questionnaire (whatever its worth), and they have internal metrics that tell them which kinds of EVE gameplay are popular and which are not.

They can panic if they want to, but listening to forums would be a bad idea.

EDIT: In my opinion, the reduced playerbase isn't because of high-sec; I think it's because the big 0.0 alliances are in limbo as far as starting fun wars, until the sov, structure, and capital ship changes are fully deployed. This thread is pretty much off-topic for this year; this CSM was pretty much elected for nullsec issues, and CCP was going to focus on nullsec changes. And they better hurry with them.



It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.

So whether you want to believe Jenn and thing that everything CCPdoes is for the High Sec Carebear, or you want to look at reality that since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#271 - 2015-10-13 02:25:57 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.


Well duh. One has only to look at ice and rock belts in highsec to see all the missing ISBoxer fleets.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Top Guac
Doomheim
#272 - 2015-10-13 02:45:48 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
... since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security.

Top guac!

Toppest guac ever.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#273 - 2015-10-13 06:34:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:

It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.


Well duh. One has only to look at ice and rock belts in highsec to see all the missing ISBoxer fleets.


ISBox is missing. But multiboxers are all online, some even manage larger fleets than before. I don't get your point here, frankly. vºv
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#274 - 2015-10-13 08:25:45 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
... since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security.

Top guac!

Toppest guac ever.



Quote:
It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.


You missed an important bit of that quote but don't worry, I got your back Pirate

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Speedy Conzollis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#275 - 2015-10-13 08:45:53 UTC
I don’t think there is anything wrong with HS, the problem is with all other secs, although I think LS is in the best place atm. Why do I think this?

Background

When I first started playing EvE I got contacted by a NS group before I even finished my tutorials and decided to move to NS there and then. Probably the reason for this was I had come from WoW playing the end game, raids with a top guild, which became very boring in the end. I saw NS as EvE’s end game and rightly so when I moved down. There was massive fleets very little PVE and fantastic support for newbros like me. Every night there would be multiple roams and always something to do. The highlights were BR, titan bridging and working your way back from half way across the universe to get back home and hopefully fighting along the way. Fun times.

I trained in to carriers and bought a JF char, help with the logic side of the corp etc. Still fun times, then the NS nerfs hit... To me this flattened NS life, less fights, Logistics were a pain in the butt and roams finding very little, even using JBs became a pain with the fatigay. So I went inactive for awhile, still subbed for the training could not bring myself to stop that :P
Then when back for a bit and noticed a few others feeling the same about NS and decided to created my own corp and try something completely new, WHs. Switched training on my dred/carrier/jf pilot from cap mastery to processing, PI etc. that would be useful in the WH and also sold all my caps. Now this was great for I think about a year, all the new stuff to learn, POS, corp management, sleeper sites etc. We were doing well in our C3 and had fun abusing our K-space connections to all over Eve, just like the old days in NS. Fun times.

Then we grew a bit, C3 was not really providing enough income and was becoming ridiculously easy, time to step up our game! Moved to a C4, the logistics were a nightmare, but we got there in the end. Well a few months in and we found that we were earning more and so could by those nice T3Cs etc. but the problem was finding PVP content. Scanning for hours mapping the chain, looking for K-space exits to do our PVP in. I know this is not how the hardcore WH’ers say WHs should be played, but it’s how we wanted to play and felt too small to go against the established WH groups. In the end we all moved out to LS except one who has now I believe made billions solo’ing the PVE in the C4.
Again we all went our separate ways, I tried moving back down to NS with my old corp, was fun for only about a month and then sov mechanics changed again this destroyed NS for me as we all moved in to NPC NS. So after trying to HTFU and adapt I found myself playing other games and took a break from EvE for about 3 months.

The return

I came back on a few weeks ago and found one of my own corp mates that used to live in WH was on, he was chilling in HS. I moved back to my corp and moved all the assets etc. up to HS with him. We are now running HS missions, anoms for the chance of DED and really just having a good old social time. Sure this will get boring too we both know that, but we are enjoying the break, learning the stuff I never have tried before. The epic arcs, cosmos, missions and lore. To be honest I am learning a lot more about fitting etc. as I run the higher level DEDs and missions, than I ever did in NS as ships were always on contract and no thought required. So fun times again for a bit.

Future

To be honest I don’t see NS changing to suit my play style and as the corp gets back together now winter is coming, we all agree that the lower class WH provided the best options for content. HS, LS and NS access through the chains. This is where we will end up, but we don’t want to move until details about how citadels will work in WH space. So we are playing, yet again, the CCP waiting game. I just hope HS keeps us interested enough until 2016!

Finally

I see more life in HS, most I talk to are happy doing their own thing solo or in corps. People seem to be having fun as far as I can see. It’s the people in other areas that seem to be talking negatively about the game, I know many are just passing time until the next changes come.

HS is fine(ish), LS almost fine, the rest not. (Based on my opinion and no one elses). The reason I am in HS is due to the current of the game I really can’t think of a better place to wait out the changes.
TLDR; Read or don’t I really don’t mind. Big smile

Also I don’t care about spelling/grammer etc. I am at work and should not be writing this, just wanted to get across how the game has been for me personally over the few years I have been playing.


Commander Spurty
#276 - 2015-10-13 13:24:22 UTC
re:redesign/introduce one substantial thing in high-sec

Buff CONCORD, give them the power to destroy Pirate faction gear. Utilizing CONCORDs various bodies, purge Pirate faction "Mods, Implants and Ships" from SPACE and the MARKETS wherever CONCORD operates, in the only way EVE can.

By hook or by crook, or just a big'ol'bang!

There should be no place for the utilization or sales / purchase through the market place (policed by the "Commerce Assessment Department") in areas in which CONCORD operate.

Part of an 'Expansion' release (not a 6 week, blam, all your pirate stuff is getting CONCORDed release cycle). Give it a video and lots of lore behind the change of stance in high-sec. Have CONCORD fire out emails (in game and out) to all accounts with Pirate faction gear in 0.5 or higher locations.

CONCORD will not even stop at killing your ship. They'll extract your implants as well. Same technology that makes CONCORD ships magically impossible to destroy (aka you pod pilots will never get access to this technology), allows them to scan your pod's implants.

From this release (Some big named expansion, no eyes wide shut non-sense of "I've been away from the game and now CONCORD blew up my Pirate frigates" shenanigans this time) on, anyone in high-sec with pirate implants are -10 KOS to CONCORD

Result: People of High-sec won't see the cool stuff they can't ever afford anymore, because it'll just be 'stuff for low sec, null sec and Worm Holes'.

Anyone on the 'wall' about leaving high-sec will. Anyone that really can't leave high-sec will revert back to Navy versions of ships and mods and implants.

What is this? It's a sandbox, you can't do that? But of course they can.

Or are you saying you are able to anchor bubbles off the Jita 4-4 station from your Titan?

No, you can't. There's already PLENTY of precedent for this.

Thoughts? Worries? Excitement at the imminent fire sales? Wonderment at how many people are hoarding offensive amounts of pirate faction stuff in high-sec because, you (another player) have absolutely no way to force them to undock it .. until now :O

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#277 - 2015-10-13 14:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Maybe they are worried, but there is no correlation between the (decrease in) the playerbase numbers and the "quality" of ideas posted, on these forums or Reddit or anywhere.

Honestly, they have moderators to sift through forums and forward worthwhile ideas, they have the CSM as a feedback mechanism, they have that "why did you cancel subscription" questionnaire (whatever its worth), and they have internal metrics that tell them which kinds of EVE gameplay are popular and which are not.

They can panic if they want to, but listening to forums would be a bad idea.

EDIT: In my opinion, the reduced playerbase isn't because of high-sec; I think it's because the big 0.0 alliances are in limbo as far as starting fun wars, until the sov, structure, and capital ship changes are fully deployed. This thread is pretty much off-topic for this year; this CSM was pretty much elected for nullsec issues, and CCP was going to focus on nullsec changes. And they better hurry with them.



It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.

So whether you want to believe Jenn and thing that everything CCPdoes is for the High Sec Carebear, or you want to look at reality that since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security.



Ah, look, the dishonesty alt has returned. The bolded part is the reveal right there.

I never said "everything". I have said that CCP has done a lot for PVE (newsflash, pve isn't jus tin high sec unless I'm imagining these escalation I run all the time) and those of us who actally like EVE PVE understand this,

The loses from high sec were probably all people who shouldn't have been paying EVE in the 1st place, but played it because "there was nothing else" or "EVE could be great one day". Those people are no loss, because it's stupid to play a video game for reasons other than "man I like this video game!".

People like you worry about the issue it for selfish, anxiety laden reasons:

- because you worry that the lack of income for CCP from those incompatible fair weather players is somehow going to hurt you (based on the stupid belief that it was helping you in the 1st place)

and

-(perhaps more importantly) people like you recognize your own kind, and with fewer people like you (and more like me) you know you have less impact on CCPs design decisions.

Man, it must suck for high sec/themepark partisans to see their base of whiney entitled solo/casual political support just evaporate into thin air like that.... However will they get CCP to change EVE to their liking if the game is filled with nothing more than people who actually like playing EVE?11?!?!?
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#278 - 2015-10-13 15:03:03 UTC
Null sec is the problem, not high sec. If there were actual player driven content available in null, these whiners would be too busy to post on the forums.
Nighthawk The Assassin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2015-10-13 15:09:09 UTC
Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve

period.

u just want easy kills, no risk,most carebears have more balls than griefers by a long shot
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#280 - 2015-10-13 15:13:00 UTC
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:
Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve


My guns disagree. As long as they're undocked, they've consented to PvP.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.