Wormholes

Wormholes have a pretty established meta, the standard fleet comp for almost every corp is going to revolve around T3s, easily the most mass efficient ship available to us. There's plenty of variations, but again almost all doctrine fleets are going to revolve around T3s and supportive roles in sub-battleship form.

What if wormhole <-> wormhole chains were not so mass limited for subcaps and battleships fleets became viable? What if you actually had to RISK ships in order to roll?

What I'm proposing: Triple the mass and jump limits on C2-C6, proportionately increase the mass of Carriers, Dreads, Frieghters, Orcas and Bowheads. Change Inertia modifiers to keep MWD/Bump speeds approximately the same.

What this accomplishes: Battleship based comps are now viable for larger fights. You no longer crush a chain with one good null roam or one good fight in that chain, allowing for escalation from both sides. You can no longer efficiently roll holes with cruisers. Standard Capital+orca or Capital + 3 higgs battleships will work, but it forces risk upon the roller instead of being able to use nullified, sub 2s align cruisers that can simply submarine back to the hole on the hostile side.

Flaws:
Fury Road. Personally, I think the entire situation regarding null spawns and mass is bullshit. There was a hugely disproportionate amount of effort between the attackers and defenders. People unwilling to scan and be aware of their space get dunked by people who put in 20-40 man hours a day scanning chains.

Regardless, I don't have a simple solution for this "problem". You could keep the mass low on Null holes but then you can't drop capitals, or would be limited to 1.

http://puu.sh/kzw6l/34b466c521.png

Any other questions?

I dont want to highjack your topic but i run a corp that has never had a t3 fight ever in our entire history in wpsace. Why? Most of our memebers find that really stale and oddly enough not flying t3s gets us WAY more fights. And seeing how our goal is to get as many fights as possible... screw t3s it is a waste of time. looking fightable is much more friendly and way more fun in our experience. I just found that t3s are too scary and made us have less fun because everyone gets ways too serious. 50 rage pings go out T3S CAPS MAX DUDES, we gotta wait 30 mins and the fight sucks anyways.

I firmly believe roll the static and form t3s for whatever meta is over and most wormholers refuse to adapt to how much wormhole space has changed over the last year. CCP did everything they could to make rage rolling for content a pain and yet people are still doing it. Everyone plays eve differently and if that works for you, go for it, but i just find that it is so much more trouble than it is worth at this point.

more on topic:
mass is really never an issue anyway unless you start moving fleets of 40+ people around and/or start including caps. As many of you fighting r3d fire prob have learned is we dont fly "doctrines", we mostly fly nanogang "meta". We just build fleets from scratch based on whos on and cover all our bases, tackle, ewar, dps, anti-support ect. We get to fly a large veriety of ships this way as long as it can do the job the pilot says it can.

very often times we use typhoon, nightmare, Mach or bhaalgorn as dps ships, mass is simply not an issue. Battleships are often the best scorce of dps avaiable when you are short on people. As an example, the nightmare does ~800-900 at 60k. However, fighting t3s in nanogang is imply not viable (despite our best efforts), they are way too tanky and guardians rep way too much for even 2-3 kiting battleships to do a lick of damage on it. So if the enemy fleet refuses to fly anything besides, ur kinda stuck. good news is kiting allows the disengage to be easy.

We fly this way because of our limitations in numbers and the lack of motivation to escalate to a t3 gang that almost all of my members do not care to fly. Most wormholers see us in a much more fightable gang than t3s and are more willing to fight, especially lower class wormholers whom are deathly afraid of pvp. Even the largest groups of wspace enjoy this change of pace from the beaten in the effing ground t3 metagame.

so in short fly whatever you want to fly and make it work for you. FFS if i can get kills in a kiting bhaalgorn at my sht tier piloting im sure you can figure a way to get dank frags in a battleship too.

i promise you mass isnt the reason you arent flying battleships. ADAPT your playstyle.

Find me a battleship that can fly cloaked and costs less than a T3 (which has the same level of tank) and i'll show you a reason for using a Battleship.

We tend to find situations like Tim outlines. We'll have 3-5 guys in gang, and we find 4 guys online, they'll ship into 2 x Guardians, 2 x DPS. If we ship into 2 DPS + 2 Guards, no one can kill anyone. So we ship into fagrollers and move on. There is only so much kiting you can do in any kind of ship before it gets boring AF.

Or you find 10 guys, and they do 4 DPS, 2 EWAR, 4 Guards. Or in one case, 4 DPS, 6 Guards. That's a signal they don't want to fight, they just want you to be dumb. We are not dumb. Bringing 4 BS won't do jack until your neuts can outrange guardian reps, allowing you to tackle a target and neut flat his support. But that won't happen anytime soon.

I don't want fleets of 100 T2/T3 or BS roaming Chains, reinforcing everything on their way. That's boring for the Roamers and timewasting for the Homecrews.

In my opinion it would make WH Space more boring an a playground for large Corps/Ally with no sense.

Issue here is how numbers skyrocket due to mechanics from t1 to t2 to t3 ....
If ccp is startign the balance at t1, then go further on t2 and then on t3 giving an equal increase without allowing skyrockting of tank/dps would actually fix all the issues ... however i am sure it will never happen.

It's happened to me with AHARM twice, Viperfleet, bunch of Russian corps at various times, and La Division Bleu a couple of times, WH0RE, and Catastrophic Overview Failure and NDORD (where it was 10 DPS 8 Guards)

Now, bear in mind, this is what people do when they don't actually want a fight. I also, excepting COF and NDORD, do not know if these gents had extra DPS or ECM cloaked up (Failcons, etc). Pretty sure LDB always has 60 Falcons cloaked; they're French, it's what French people do.

COF brought 12 Brutix and 6 Guards vs our 6 Sacs and 4 Augorors. When your enemy's logi outnumbers your DPS, it's pathetic.

NDORD brought the above to destroy 2 Carriers supported by 8 of the Maythorn's kitchen sink. Discount the carriers, they have no DPS, again it's 1:1 Guards for foes.

That's BRAVE of them. Very BRAVE of them.

That can't be right...

Perhaps I missed something? I moved out of wh's about 6 months ago, but rolling holes with cruisers was never efficient. It could be done with a higgs-rigged cruiser or hictor with an oversized prop mod, but it was much more efficient to use a higgs-BS.

What's changed?

Interdiction nullified T3 cruisers can roll a hole regardless of if it is camped or not. With a jumpmass of around 280mil out and back (590-600mil for BS), 2bil holes are cycled quite quickly. On the outside, you spawn just 4-7km off, so they can't really keep you from just boating back to the hole cloaked either.