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[December] Missile Disruptors and Tweaks to Missile Guidance Mods

First post First post
Author
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#101 - 2015-10-02 21:37:32 UTC
I leave you for a few hours and what do I get when I come back?

Dear CCP Fozzie, I have a couple or Navy buddies that owe me a favour and they are willing to give you are free of charge demonstration on how missiles work.

And if someone else needs a free of charge rocket demonstration, like Harvey does, I am willing to show you why you are mistaken.

What comes to mind at first? NO. Double NO. And of course HELL NO.

It is fine that you do not know the game mechanics quite as good as I do, you haven't been here long enough to see the error of your ways.

Let me elaborate. AGAIN.


When you finally give missiles back the application they once had, it will apply to all missiles. For the very, very slow, this means that defender missiles will recieve the biggest buff in the history of mankind.

If you find yourself a small missile ship gang, you can form your anti-missile gang with the same ships, just not as many and shoot most of the missiles down with rocket launcher (again for the very, very slow, you put the now freshly buffed and very, very useful defender missiles into the rocket launchers and press FONE) Caracal's.

Funny sidenote, the "friend or foe" missile has a very different name in the Air Force. They call them "fire and forget" missiles.

Now 80% of said missile gang in destroyed before the rest of your gang with beam Omens start working on them (or Zealots if you have them.)

Opponents Caracals disarmed. Fight lost.

For the capsuleers that believe something is overpowered, they should definately re-read of the definition of "overpowered". CCP made it very clear how they define something as overpowered.

A not funny sidenote, the energy neutralizer module fits into this category.

Now for the last time, missiles need to be taken seriously before you start throwing more unnecessary counters to them in the box.

And no I will not respond in kind. I hate to repeat myself over and over and over again.

You can read my esseys again if you want, I gave an explanation often enough.


On the ECM thing for Caldari there is a tiny error in the description of the ECM, which is the Caldari only sometimes get ECM. Everyone always get their ewar.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-10-02 21:53:11 UTC
Sounds good, as much as I will be annoyed by these when I fly missile-based ships, not like I can't easily use them in 1v1s to screw over other missile-based ships.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#103 - 2015-10-02 22:09:10 UTC
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:
Question, why not have one module? The current Disruptors, but with this added functionality. Or a missile script. Especially if you are going for solo PVP I imagine this is a bit weird. You fit one module for all turrets, except for missiles. Now you have to choose which disruptor module to fit. All other EWAR is 'across the board', why is this designed for missiles only?

I see how it creates fitting options and more choices but I am genuinely interested in the thought proces behind creating a new module for this :)


I assume they want to ensure that one ship can't do it all - switch from one type of disruption to another (turret versus missile guidance). Also, EWAR is not across the board: There are multiple type of ECM depending on the ship target type as well as damps being seperate.

Now, what would be convenient, and very over powered, would be to have one type of EWAR module and just use scripts to change what it does: damps to ECM to tracking disruption to missile guidance disruption.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-10-02 22:09:59 UTC
I strongly believe it should rather be a script for current TD's that convert them to missile disruptors.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#105 - 2015-10-02 22:47:45 UTC
BTW thanks Fozzie for including the buff to Missile Guidance Enhancers/Computers in this change. This is something I have been hoping for for some time and asking for as a result of the somewhat sudden Aegis release nerfs to these modules.

Ultimately I think 10% is going to be good enough for Missile Guidance Computers (mid slots), since this will put them very closely in line with T2 application rigs. They won't be *as* good as TPs, but they are more flexible.

Still concerned the lowslot modules, Missile Guidance Enhancers, will need more love. Current bonuses are so low that 10% will barely eke over stacking penalties. I get the feeling a 20-25% buff will ultimately be what makes them worthwhile.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Tiberius Mathusia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2015-10-02 22:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Mathusia
The proposed effects seem quite weak compared to the effect TD's have on turrets. With an unbonused hull I can expect 40% range reduction against a turret with the optimal script but a 30% reduction in flight time doesn't even equate to a 30% in range because the missile range is still buoyed up by missile speed.

That said I'm glad it's being introduced given that TD fits are generally weak against missile boats.
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2015-10-02 22:55:35 UTC
Riela Tanal wrote:
As has been stated by others. If they go with the script method, every ship will fit just one of these tracking disruptors and swap the script out for whatever weapon type they are fighting.

In the same way that every ship currently fits a sensor damp or ECM module?

Oh wait ... That hasn't actually happened, has it?

Marech.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#108 - 2015-10-02 22:57:15 UTC
so as predicted that "buff" to missiles is playing its course
Marech Bhayanaka
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2015-10-02 22:59:15 UTC
Petrified wrote:

Now, what would be convenient, and very over powered, would be to have one type of EWAR module and just use scripts to change what it does: damps to ECM to tracking disruption to missile guidance disruption.

Damps work against all turret and missile ships, as do the generic ECM modules.

Marech.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#110 - 2015-10-02 23:04:07 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
I leave you for a few hours and what do I get when I come back?

Dear CCP Fozzie, I have a couple or Navy buddies that owe me a favour and they are willing to give you are free of charge demonstration on how missiles work.

And if someone else needs a free of charge rocket demonstration, like Harvey does, I am willing to show you why you are mistaken.

What comes to mind at first? NO. Double NO. And of course HELL NO.

It is fine that you do not know the game mechanics quite as good as I do, you haven't been here long enough to see the error of your ways.

Let me elaborate. AGAIN.


When you finally give missiles back the application they once had, it will apply to all missiles. For the very, very slow, this means that defender missiles will recieve the biggest buff in the history of mankind.

If you find yourself a small missile ship gang, you can form your anti-missile gang with the same ships, just not as many and shoot most of the missiles down with rocket launcher (again for the very, very slow, you put the now freshly buffed and very, very useful defender missiles into the rocket launchers and press FONE) Caracal's.

Funny sidenote, the "friend or foe" missile has a very different name in the Air Force. They call them "fire and forget" missiles.

Now 80% of said missile gang in destroyed before the rest of your gang with beam Omens start working on them (or Zealots if you have them.)

Opponents Caracals disarmed. Fight lost.

For the capsuleers that believe something is overpowered, they should definately re-read of the definition of "overpowered". CCP made it very clear how they define something as overpowered.

A not funny sidenote, the energy neutralizer module fits into this category.

Now for the last time, missiles need to be taken seriously before you start throwing more unnecessary counters to them in the box.

And no I will not respond in kind. I hate to repeat myself over and over and over again.

You can read my esseys again if you want, I gave an explanation often enough.


On the ECM thing for Caldari there is a tiny error in the description of the ECM, which is the Caldari only sometimes get ECM. Everyone always get their ewar.


this is comedy gold
CaptainMorgan49
Perkone
Caldari State
#111 - 2015-10-02 23:09:41 UTC
I'd agree with the missile guidance buffs empirically because I very rarely see those modules fitted to ships when people I know in eve are linking fits for every job imaginable or creating new doctrines; it follows therefore that they are not currently powerful enough to make them worth their weight in most setups.

I also like the idea of adding missile disruption to the ECM and turret disruption modules already in eve and feel they will fit in rather well.

To all those people who said "why not just have a single disruptor and then use scripts to target missiles or guns", I would say "for the same reason there isn't one ECM module and a script for each sensor type; Because it would be overpowered." I would also point out that every new type of module in eve widens the array of combat situation, which is great for variety in the game.
Justa Hunni
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-10-02 23:12:41 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
afkalt wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

not sure how a general missile buff to compensate for missile disruptors achieves that


Because if 75% of the systems are weak and 25% are too good, we reign in th 25% and give the 75% a leg up.


Hit quote limit


non-rapid/light missiles are fine. you just never see them because rapids and lights are op


What?I would hazard a guess that the reason you never see non-rapid/light missiles is because they are CRAP. While rapid lights and lights might be OP (and I'm still not sold on that) having only one or two usable weapon system classes for an ENTIRE race of ships seems a little one-sided. Glad those of us who fly Caldari don't fly their battleships . . .
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#113 - 2015-10-02 23:12:54 UTC
I hope we will be able to request refund on SP invested into missiles since you are nerfing them to the ground with this module.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#114 - 2015-10-02 23:18:35 UTC
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
I hope we will be able to request refund on SP invested into missiles since you are nerfing them to the ground with this module.


You can request that, but the answer will always be no Roll
Matt Faithbringer
YOLO so no taxes please
#115 - 2015-10-02 23:20:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Matt Faithbringer
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Matt Faithbringer wrote:
I hope we will be able to request refund on SP invested into missiles since you are nerfing them to the ground with this module.


You can request that, but the answer will always be no Roll


I know, but come one, that module will render missiles almost useless
Thirdsin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2015-10-02 23:25:02 UTC
DaJokr wrote:
This means you're adding remote missile guidance enhancers to match all the other modules and balance it out, correct?


^this ccp
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#117 - 2015-10-02 23:27:00 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
BTW thanks Fozzie for including the buff to Missile Guidance Enhancers/Computers in this change. This is something I have been hoping for for some time and asking for as a result of the somewhat sudden Aegis release nerfs to these modules.

Ultimately I think 10% is going to be good enough for Missile Guidance Computers (mid slots), since this will put them very closely in line with T2 application rigs. They won't be *as* good as TPs, but they are more flexible.

Still concerned the lowslot modules, Missile Guidance Enhancers, will need more love. Current bonuses are so low that 10% will barely eke over stacking penalties. I get the feeling a 20-25% buff will ultimately be what makes them worthwhile.


m.. they are underwhelming mods atm, and having things like TP's and webs being more universal for just as good if not better at the job its very questionable they will ever be used much without nerfs too the aforementioned.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Niriel Greez
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2015-10-02 23:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Niriel Greez
Before addressing some of the issues light missiles currently have with this 'fix', how about we look at fixing existing application issues of anything not light missiles?

Torpedoes and HMLs, and perhaps cruise to a certain extent, need some love. Ship velocity in particular has too much of an impact on damage application.

Oh, and for the record, the missile mods are for the most part, useless. The mid-slot is usually only used for range, while the low-slot is so useless that the only situation it can be considered of any use, is on a PvE fit to compliment four BCUs. Painters and rigors are vastly superior and if you plan on fixing the issues missiles are currently facing with these modules, you are going to have to do better than that.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#119 - 2015-10-02 23:37:32 UTC
Tiberius Mathusia wrote:
The proposed effects seem quite weak compared to the effect TD's have on turrets. With an unbonused hull I can expect 40% range reduction against a turret with the optimal script but a 30% reduction in flight time doesn't even equate to a 30% in range because the missile range is still buoyed up by missile speed.

That said I'm glad it's being introduced given that TD fits are generally weak against missile boats.

considering that missile guidance computers add speed and time with a range script, I would assume that using a range script will drop flight speed and flight time. Seems pretty strong on the range side.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#120 - 2015-10-02 23:43:35 UTC
My main dislike is the requirement to have 2 modules I am supportive of the idea of having a missile disruption script and gun disruption script but they all fit into the same module so instead of tracking disruptors we just have weapon disruptors. If this doesn't happen it will still make TD's MD's completely useless outside of blob warfare where you know what the other blob is bringing and can fit accordingly for small gang and roaming, other forms of ewar will still out-perform this to the point where it's not worth the fitting slot.