These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[December] Missile Disruptors and Tweaks to Missile Guidance Mods

First post First post
Author
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2015-10-07 12:33:44 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
~Snipsnip~
BiaB would probably make this a non issue.

Thing is we already have this in game (defender missiles). It's just not effective.

Also, [AFAIK] grouped missiles don't work as a group of multiple missiles. They look like they are but they are not. They are a "Super Missile" with a a cumulative HP pool and damage value that is the sum of all the missiles. You can then lower this damage value by lowering the HP pool with SB's or defender missiles. The client also renders this visually by showing you number of missiles left in the super missile.

The other side of the coin is also that the server needs to do all these calculations constantly for missiles in flight. If you destroy those missiles the calculations no longer need to be carried out so the problem of server load would self medicate.

I also wonder how missile disruption modules would effect missiles already in flight and then when falloff range begins to make the effectiveness of said modules sporadic, would the server then not be forced to "re-calculate" on and off causing more load?

BIAB wont make servers calculate faster. All BIAB is free up server load/read times to allow MORE things to happen and to prevent latency from causing an issue in larger fights or higher population systems. Think about BIAB as a high efficiency two sided compression system. It just ensures that for one event(transferring) is done with far less active load than before. Once you are loaded BIAB doesn't really do much.

Yes each individual ship compresses all its missiles into one "group" to the server(fozzi correct if I'm in error here please)
However, You are only thinking of the calculations from one side. If you have a PD/defender ship vs a fleet of cerbs you have limited options. You either space magic damage away with a flat reduction(this is bad. Space magic is bad). You have the module be completely ineffective because it only targets one enemy ships missiles at a time... Finally you do the most effective system which is having the defensive system target ALL incoming hostile targets for interdiction much the same way an actual missile defense system(like PHALANX CIWS) works. Trouble is to actually do this you need specialized systems to calculate best fire rates and target priorities.. in EVE or really any game thats an absurd thing to ask for. It's one of the main reasons you rarely, if ever, see real point defense in any video game.

This problem exists with smartbombs as well. Every time you fire one off it has to interact with everything it hits. If i had to guess smartbombs are a problem to the devs when performance is discussed. I think they get away with it by simply doing one volume calculation and then applying an effect to everything inside that volume.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#322 - 2015-10-07 13:00:29 UTC
Yup...so...y'know...with these mods let's just get rid of the lot.

Now we have solid anti-missile ewar, let's drop the crappy, lag inducing edge case stuff that we had to make do with previously.

Unless there is a good reason to keep special snowflake extra ewar for missiles for a reason beyond "lolmissiles".
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#323 - 2015-10-07 13:37:12 UTC
Once you make this then you have to make a drone tracking disruptor.

drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.

there needs to be a td that effects the main ship and stops sending the attack message to the drones. or just makes them predict trajectories incorrectly and miss their shots.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Infinite Pew
#324 - 2015-10-07 13:52:25 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:
Once you make this then you have to make a drone tracking disruptor.

drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.

there needs to be a td that effects the main ship and stops sending the attack message to the drones. or just makes them predict trajectories incorrectly and miss their shots.



Was asked for but denied.

Shame. Ishtars online is one of things that killed EvE [IMHO].

No. You can't have my stuff.
Miron Tacza
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#325 - 2015-10-07 16:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Miron Tacza
A scene during a fight, let's jump into the Missile ship:

Hello Missiles, I'm a Missile (tracking) Disruptor.

Missiles: Hello MD

MD: I'm just telling you're capsuler you got Missiledisruppted.

Missiles: What does that mean?

MD: Well, regardless of your speed and the amount of fuel you're filled with, I say you're slower and you have less Traveltime. So you won't reach the same Distance.

Missiles: How can that work? Our Speed is given by our casing (burner) and the flight time by the amount of fuel we have. How shall that even be possible that we can't fly the same distance anymore.

MD: Don't ask me, I'm just the Module brought into this mechanics to have something similar to TDs.

Missiles: OK lets believe there's some magic way you can Influence our flighttime or speed. Is that all you can do?

MD: Nope, Scripted the right way I can make your explosions bigger.

Missiles: .......................

Here we better jump out again, before the missiles get really angry and blow up in the launcher.


Just exyplain me how that should be possible at all.
And all only because of the RLML on Orthruses.
Just nerf them if everybody whines about them?

How many Missile ships get flown? And about how many are the people complaining they're to strong. I just can think of Mordus Legion ships.
With rockets and Lights (not RLML) seems everything ok. All other missiles are called crap. Only the RHML seems to be used sometimes, but even then People say it's ok,t not great. You needed to buff HMs short ago and they still don't get used. So tell me where is the reason for MD?????

Ok I'm a Rookie, I still have to learn a lot in this game but I'm allowed to have an opinion. I started the game and fell in Love with Missiles. so I wanted to only learn Missiles and Missile ships. Maybe thats why am that much pissed off.

Ok at least I can stop my Missileskills in the Queue and Replace them with Turret skills.
Please forgive my bad english.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#326 - 2015-10-07 16:08:25 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.



can't lock and apply ewar to drones ??

did I miss that memo
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#327 - 2015-10-07 16:23:48 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.



can't lock and apply ewar to drones ??

did I miss that memo


I think its alittle stupid to apply ewar to drones, except in certain scenarios like you outnumber your opponent, so you jam his drones for lulz. But in a 1v1 there is no ship that will be fit with 5 TDs or 5 damps, or 5 ECM mods. 1 TD on a turret ship = RIP turret tracking or optimal, for all the guns on that ship. 1 MD on a missile ship = RIP all your missiles. 1 TD on 1 out of 5 drones = Oh lol, lemme rescoop and relaunch while you are still being plinked away by 4 other drones.

So what.. maybe a 20% dmg loss if you never rescoop as opposed to a 100% damage loss to missiles if they never hit the target. Saying you can ewar drones and that somehow means they shouldnt have their own ewar against them is silly.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#328 - 2015-10-07 16:37:33 UTC
Miron Tacza wrote:
A scene during a fight, let's jump into the Missile ship:

Hello Missiles, I'm a Missile (tracking) Disruptor.

Missiles: Hello MD

MD: I'm just telling you're capsuler you got Missiledisruppted.

Missiles: What does that mean?

MD: Well, regardless of your speed and the amount of fuel you're filled with, I say you're slower and you have less Traveltime. So you won't reach the same Distance.

Missiles: How can that work? Our Speed is given by our casing (burner) and the flight time by the amount of fuel we have. How shall that even be possible that we can't fly the same distance anymore.

MD: Don't ask me, I'm just the Module brought into this mechanics to have something similar to TDs.

Missiles: OK lets believe there's some magic way you can Influence our flighttime or speed. Is that all you can do?

MD: Nope, Scripted the right way I can make your explosions bigger.

Missiles: .......................

Here we better jump out again, before the missiles get really angry and blow up in the launcher.


Just exyplain me how that should be possible at all.
And all only because of the RLML on Orthruses.
Just nerf them if everybody whines about them?

How many Missile ships get flown? And about how many are the people complaining they're to strong. I just can think of Mordus Legion ships.
With rockets and Lights (not RLML) seems everything ok. All other missiles are called crap. Only the RHML seems to be used sometimes, but even then People say it's ok,t not great. You needed to buff HMs short ago and they still don't get used. So tell me where is the reason for MD?????

Ok I'm a Rookie, I still have to learn a lot in this game but I'm allowed to have an opinion. I started the game and fell in Love with Missiles. so I wanted to only learn Missiles and Missile ships. Maybe thats why am that much pissed off.

Ok at least I can stop my Missileskills in the Queue and Replace them with Turret skills.
Please forgive my bad english.



you know there's 2 skills that you you train up in your mind that allow your missiles to go further? cause eve always functions on logic
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#329 - 2015-10-07 17:24:12 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.



can't lock and apply ewar to drones ??

did I miss that memo


I think its alittle stupid to apply ewar to drones, except in certain scenarios like you outnumber your opponent, so you jam his drones for lulz. But in a 1v1 there is no ship that will be fit with 5 TDs or 5 damps, or 5 ECM mods. 1 TD on a turret ship = RIP turret tracking or optimal, for all the guns on that ship. 1 MD on a missile ship = RIP all your missiles. 1 TD on 1 out of 5 drones = Oh lol, lemme rescoop and relaunch while you are still being plinked away by 4 other drones.

So what.. maybe a 20% dmg loss if you never rescoop as opposed to a 100% damage loss to missiles if they never hit the target. Saying you can ewar drones and that somehow means they shouldnt have their own ewar against them is silly.


You could always shitfit a curse with 5 TD and play wack a mole on drones. LolLolLolLolLol
Flyinghotpocket
Doomheim
#330 - 2015-10-07 18:03:35 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.



can't lock and apply ewar to drones ??

did I miss that memo

did i miss the memo where this isnt a solo game? yes let me carry around 10 td's to counter just 2 pilots. genius.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#331 - 2015-10-07 18:06:32 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


drones will be the only offensive system that is completely immune to ewar at all.



can't lock and apply ewar to drones ??

did I miss that memo


I think its alittle stupid to apply ewar to drones, except in certain scenarios like you outnumber your opponent, so you jam his drones for lulz. But in a 1v1 there is no ship that will be fit with 5 TDs or 5 damps, or 5 ECM mods. 1 TD on a turret ship = RIP turret tracking or optimal, for all the guns on that ship. 1 MD on a missile ship = RIP all your missiles. 1 TD on 1 out of 5 drones = Oh lol, lemme rescoop and relaunch while you are still being plinked away by 4 other drones.

So what.. maybe a 20% dmg loss if you never rescoop as opposed to a 100% damage loss to missiles if they never hit the target. Saying you can ewar drones and that somehow means they shouldnt have their own ewar against them is silly.


You could always shitfit a curse with 5 TD and play wack a mole on drones. LolLolLolLolLol


Bolded for emphasis.

Granted i know you're not serious, but you dont need to shitfit a curse/pilgrim/sentinel to absolutely murder a turret and soon to be missile ship, but you must do it to apply EWAR to drones, for one ship. Not including if youre fighting more than 1 drone ship, then what... shitfit all the things?

That same shitfit curse could disable 5 turret ships, where it can only disable one drone ship. Or 2.5 gurista ships. This is assuming they dont juggle drones, forcing you to reacquire lock on the drones every few seconds.

Like ive mentioned before, ill adapt to this change as usual, but its basically killing all other missiles to fix RLML. People who say no one uses TDs really need to go out and roam once in awhile. I had to deal with a sentinel and a 15man gang just last night. These new missile ewar mods will be on every ship or stored for quick changing in station or mobile depot. Or there will be sentinels with both flying around for maximum coverage.

It just seems that once again drones are the master race and dont get a single ewar module that affects all drones equally. CCP can i have a mod that reduces drone bandwidth plz? So i can take your 5 drones down to 1 or 2?
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2015-10-07 19:39:42 UTC
Drones don't exactly need ewar. Though this would depend on where CCP wants drones to fit into the meta.

If drone hulls are meant to be the "jack of all trades" then allowing them to be ewar immune isn't immediately a bad thing provided:
1] Drones never exceed a more specialized hulls abilities(IE they would always be worse than a sniper ship at sniping)
2] Their effective application was always less than the weapon system they are competing against.
3] They remain destroyable and with a limited storage capacity.

Except for a few hulls this actually applies. It gives drone hulls the niche of being able to handle multiple situations without actually being better than what they are fighting.

It also lets things like disruptors have a critical niche as well. Remember ROCK - PAPER - SCISSORS.



Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#333 - 2015-10-07 19:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Technically speaking, you can damp/jam the controlling ship (not necessarily the host), and if the timing is right you can prevent proper control. They will still auto-aggress if they were prepared for it. But if I drop drones too late, I may have to wait or need to assign to a unjammed partner. Doesn't take the drones completely out of the game, but it does reduce the effectiveness.

Worst case, drone specific ewar would disrupt control range or something else drone specific.

also: can we a more through list of meta modules for MGC/MGE? Maybe as part of the weapon upgrades module tiericide (if that happens)?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#334 - 2015-10-07 22:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Miron Tacza wrote:
Just exyplain me how that should be possible at all.

Firstly, gameplay takes an upfront seat when it comes to adjustments and how everything is balanced. It's better to have a fun, diverse game, rather than trying to make a lore-based one (also far simpler and easier). Keep in mind, lore in a situation like this, is easily bent and flexed. There are very few limitations to what you can make up as lore reasons for things.

Game balance aside, there ways to disrupt a missile's effectiveness in the real world today.

Short version: screw with their navigation.

Long version: (this not comprehensive nor does it include every possible aspect of different systems. Just the basic ideas)
Missile guidance systems are divided between GOT (go-on-target) and GOLIS (go-on-location-in-space) systems.

GOLIS systems basically go to a specific place. An ICBM or many cruise missiles (real-life) use systems such as this. The target needs to be stationary or mostly stationary for them to work effectively. The benefit of this is that a target tracking suite is not needed on the missile, leaving more room for any number of other things (counter-countermeasures, bigger payload, more fuel, etc.). All necessary data o the target is input before the missile is fired. On mobile platforms, this data might be constantly updated until the last micro-second before launch. At a bare minimum, the GOLIS system requires at least a single point of reference in order to operate properly. Some systems use satellites, stars, or other natural/artificial fixed points. Some are even loaded with topographical data to use as a fixed point (the point is isn't necessarily a single place, but a comparison of multiple within the data). These are sel-contained and require no further assistance to do their job. Fire and forget.

Keep in mind, missiles are designed to fit a particular size so that they can be launched from whatever is carrying them. The difference in size of man carried surface-to-air missiles, missiles loaded on jets, and missiles fired from tubes on a submarine, can have major impact on squeezing as much use out of every cubic centimeter of the missile.

GOT guidance systems are composed of a target tracker, missile tracker, and guidance computer. Target tracker tracks the position of the target, relative to the sensor. Missile tracker system determine the missile's location (or more properly, determines it's new location) relative to where it was. The guidance computer is similar to the one on a GOLIS system, does lots of quick trigonometry to calculate a path to the target. The difference being, GOT computers utilize data from both trackers where the GOLIS uses the preset data and its fixed points. GOT can tell if their target has moved and adjust accordingly. GOT missiles are also capable of using remote sensors, instead of ones located on itself. It will communicate remotely with these sensors (usually home-based, sometimes part of a wider network) to do the same job.

Both systems can be fired from a stationary or moving platform.

Here lies the biggest difference: so long as a GOLIS system can determine its position, it can find a way to its target. A GOLIS system, relies on updating external data in order to know where to hit. This leaves GOT systems vulnerable to interference of its sensors, giving it bad data. GOLIS is a bit harder to disrupt, since trying to change the input from a static location (how does one jam stars???) is more difficult than pointing a jammer at the missile (direction and sensor type plays a big role in this).

How does this apply to Eve?

Well, I could easily be wrong, but I'm going to assume that spaceship missiles use GOT, since their targets are most likely moving, and possibly very fast too. Knowing what the system is, a ship can design its countermeasures around changing the information provided by sensors, either on the origin ship or the missile itself (i'll explain a problem with this in a second).

Now, since the game has limitations in computing power, some shortcuts and assumptions are needed to ensure smooth and consistent operation.

Examples:

Signature Radius:

Signature radius can be seen as how well the guidance computer (more accurately, it's sensors) can determine the location of the ship. the smaller the sig radius, the less accurate the data is. This is where the warhead will try to go, and will determine where the missile will explode.
Another assumption I will make, is that Eve missiles use location to determine detonation, rather than impact. Why? Shields. I don't know if it explained for certain, but I believe it is safe to assume a shield bubble or surface, can be adjusted in size (kind of like stretching a balloon). The bigger the volume covered the weaker it is. So a shield could be manipulated to extend very far from the ship, causing the resulting explosion to be farther from the hull (shields are not solid, and this can be seen when a shield with low hp can bleed damage to the armor). It is also likely that Eve missiles use a directed explosion to efficiently use energy against the target. Adjustments to other missile aspects can effect this, and this is how we see explosion radius. If the explosion 'cone' is larger than the ship, most of the damage is thrown into empty space.
So with those assumptions, we know a missile will attempt to explode as close to the target ship as it can, without being fooled by a shield stretch.

Explosion Velocity:

There are a couple aspects that will contribute to this value. All are plausible, and Eve likely just lumps them together for simplicity.

Firstly, how fast is the energy from the explosion moving? This aspect is easily seen when using an every day water hose, and extremely well seen with pressure-washers. When a fluid (explosion can be considered 'mostly' fluid, since it is made of expanding gases and - CONTINUED ON NEXT POST
Dani Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2015-10-07 23:14:07 UTC
Miron Tacza wrote:
A scene during a fight, let's jump into the Missile ship:

Hello Missiles, I'm a Missile (tracking) Disruptor.

Missiles: Hello MD

MD: I'm just telling you're capsuler you got Missiledisruppted.

Missiles: What does that mean?

MD: Well, regardless of your speed and the amount of fuel you're filled with, I say you're slower and you have less Traveltime. So you won't reach the same Distance.

Missiles: How can that work? Our Speed is given by our casing (burner) and the flight time by the amount of fuel we have. How shall that even be possible that we can't fly the same distance anymore.

MD: Don't ask me, I'm just the Module brought into this mechanics to have something similar to TDs.

Missiles: OK lets believe there's some magic way you can Influence our flighttime or speed. Is that all you can do?

MD: Nope, Scripted the right way I can make your explosions bigger.

Missiles: .......................

Here we better jump out again, before the missiles get really angry and blow up in the launcher.


Just exyplain me how that should be possible at all.
And all only because of the RLML on Orthruses.
Just nerf them if everybody whines about them?

How many Missile ships get flown? And about how many are the people complaining they're to strong. I just can think of Mordus Legion ships.
With rockets and Lights (not RLML) seems everything ok. All other missiles are called crap. Only the RHML seems to be used sometimes, but even then People say it's ok,t not great. You needed to buff HMs short ago and they still don't get used. So tell me where is the reason for MD?????

Ok I'm a Rookie, I still have to learn a lot in this game but I'm allowed to have an opinion. I started the game and fell in Love with Missiles. so I wanted to only learn Missiles and Missile ships. Maybe thats why am that much pissed off.

Ok at least I can stop my Missileskills in the Queue and Replace them with Turret skills.
Please forgive my bad english.



I imagine it does operate on same principles as the TD. They infect and cripple guidance systems. On a turret that would be obviously the mounting rotor control and targeting computers. But for a missile, I would believe these missiles carry on board electronics that regulate various features.

The Missile TD affects things like the fuel regulator causing it to burn less efficiently.
As for a larger explosion, perhaps the missile load has a shaped charge and casing sort of mechanic that doesn't trigger or arm at appropriate range, allowing the explosion to take a larger radius instead of a controlled blast.

Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2015-10-07 23:20:44 UTC
particles of shrapnel acting similar to fluid particles. When the exit of a given tube or warhead is made smaller, the fluid will move faster since more particles must move through the smaller space in the same amount of time (see: Bernoulli Principle). If the size of the cone is larger, the material moves slower, if it is smaller, material moves faster.
Knowing a missile explodes near it's target, this leaves a gap of time where the particles are moving toward the target at whtever velocity they have. This time could determine if a ship is still fully within the radius of the explosion cone. If the material moves too slow, the ship could either fully escape the damage, or move far enough to only receive part of it, reducing its overall impact. It's almost like dodging the thousands of tiny 'bullets' ejecting from the warhead.

The only other aspect that I can think of to affect explosion velocity, is the agility of the ship. Not the agility we see in game (time it takes to reach top speed), but all the micro-adjustments that aren't calculated in-game. A ship turning slightly at an angle (in the real universe) could mitigate damage to a smaller profile on the ship, rather than being hit 'broadside' and absorbing more of the energy in more places. A skilled pilot could, in essence, make an evasive maneuver to turn his tempest at an angle from the explosion and avoid or deflect a greater part of the energy. The of course, using the same skill, to correct his angle so he doesn't lose much momentum in the greater direction of his movement.

Aside from Sig radius and Explosion velocity, continue reading with this in mind:
Eve trying to simplify and reduce computing need, does not allow you to target missiles (not that many ships would have the time), allow you to shoot them. Even if missiles could be targeted and shot, consider that it would drastically reduce the chance of doing anything meaningful to the 2-8 different missiles approaching. This is why defender missiles really suck, and why smartbombs are beautifully effective (no need to target or aim).

"Ok, Rowells. You have literally scared away the children and given me cancer with this Wll-o-text. GET TO THE DAMN POINT!!

Since you asked so nicely:

Here are a couple plausible methods on how Missile Tracking Disruption works:

Firstly, the module is not necessarily a single object on the ship, but a suite of different tools tuned to different methods. They can work on different aspects of the multiple missiles in order to accomplish the same thing. Most likely (as the name implies) the modules confuse the missile as to the actual location and/or size of the ship. The modules can be scripted and tuned for either specific purpose.

The second method is that the missiles are remotely guided (still using GOT) from data given by the origin ship. This also explains why you ca just fire the missiles and point at the target, if the origin ship does not have any data. So, the MTD would disrupt the communications between the host ship and the missile, making it less effective.

Since we can't target missiles (and don't want server hamsters dying every time a claymore undocks (so many missiles, such a short time), we relegate the task to simply targetting the ships.

"Still doesn't explain the shorter range."

Actually it does. Since the warhead is constantly receiving interference and incomplete data, it makes inefficient decisions. It's like a drunk driver and a formula-one driver in a drag race. The drunk missiles makes overcorrections and bad adjustments, costing it precious fuel. Whereas the formula-one racer is focused and fully aware of the road ahead.

Ok, so I'm done. Splerge over. Return to your lives citizens.
Miron Tacza
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#337 - 2015-10-08 00:09:12 UTC
Ok thank you all for the nice and well thought explanations.
I think of missiles preloaded with fuel and a preadjusted burnvelocity. So they burn a given time and a given speed. All the GOT does is steering the missile by changing direction.

Ok let's asume you' re right. Then we can go and say let the signature radius increase to 10km for a frigate and missiles will explode way outside of the physical hull of the ship. So no missiles will ever effect spaceshipa again.

Ok jokes aside: I know they want something against missiles simillar to TDs.

But remember: Charges, Bullets and Laserrays can't be firewalled. They can't be defender missiled.

It just feels wrong to MD a ship and those missiles just fly 12km instead of 40km.
I Think MDs like this are not the right way.


Maybe MDs affecting the rate of fire, but I think that can easily get even worse than the planned ones
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#338 - 2015-10-08 09:06:54 UTC
Bottom line really with this is; A few years ago CCP nerfed missiles - They were crap for a long time.
CCP created a new module (removing a module that was supposed to be OP replacing it with the new 'balanced" Rapid Launchers) that is now considered OP due to CCP releasing a new ship with extreme bonuses to rapid launchers.

CCP gave missiles an ever so slight buff that made some of them usable (in pvp) again.

Now because "some" ship / launcher configurations are considered OP by some - Missiles get another nice nerf to put them right back to where they were (if not worse) prior to the minor buff they received (only a few months ago).


CCP balance logic at its all time best. Nerf a whole class of weapons (and every single missile ship) because we made a mistake and made ONE new ship too powerful.



-- - -- - --
Heavy missiles are just above crap, Hams are ok if your shooting battlecruisers (or MWD shield cruisers) and above - Soon, Heavy missiles will only be useful for PVE (again) and Hams will simply not be worth fitting. Don't forget the poor lumbering Phoenix, which for the first time in years is more than a paperweight, will become less useful, than a paperweight.
1 or 2 ships that use missiles have anything like decent damage application and the whole range of missile ships now gets a nerf because of it.



My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#339 - 2015-10-08 10:18:23 UTC
Probably too late for this, but can we look at the fittings for the guidance mods please? A copypasta of turrets doesn't work so well for missiles Sad.

Or change the rig penalties.

Please Smile
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#340 - 2015-10-08 10:26:17 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:

did i miss the memo where this isnt a solo game? yes let me carry around 10 td's to counter just 2 pilots. genius.


whilst clearly you're not.

drones are ----> autonomous
which means ewar applied to the ship launching them is irrelevant to their ability to function