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[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate

First post First post First post
Author
Zevix
Theoretical Paradigms Initiative
Everyones Best Interest
#281 - 2015-11-21 01:59:51 UTC
I think I might have an answer to the flexibility to shattered wormhole ice mining. 3 little words;

"Mobile Compression Depot"

huh, huh?
Bellasarius Baxter
Zilog Enterprises
#282 - 2015-11-21 12:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bellasarius Baxter
Message deleted, answered in Q/A
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2015-11-21 15:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadolf Agalder
Liaura Nightwing wrote:
Laenatus wrote:
Anyone wanna guess what isk/hour you could make with one of these in null?



Well if you are mining Dark Glitter it'll take 12 minutes to fill up the hull, after that if you have a hauler you can keep mining

so 60minutes/12minutes = 5 so you can mine 5 full hulls before an hour hits

I'm assuming Dark glitter is 1,000m3 so that's 15 pieces/12 minutes

15x5=75 pieces in an hour

Dark Glitter values at 350,000isk x 75 pieces = 26,250,000isk/hour

Now normally miners mine for more than 1 hour so lets just say for 6 hours (average time I spend mining)

26,250,000 x 6 = 157,500,000isk and I play 5 - 7 days of the week so we'll say 6 days = 945,000,000isk/hour

depending if you are solo mining or with a group, I usually travel with 3 - 5 so we'll say 4 all running the same ship and mining

945,000,000isk x 4 = 3,780,000,000 isk



This is only if you have all upgrades maxed out and the time down to the 48 seconds to mine ice in nulsec without being bothered :)

26,250,000 x 6 = 157,500,000isk and I play 5 - 7 days of the week so we'll say 6 days = 945,000,000isk/hour
=
945,000,000 ISK / week(s, even if it is more than one consecutive week, although that amount would double), not per hour.


(Previously hacked from the "Draft saved" function which is more hacked than functional btw, similarly to how I was attacked while mining ice, and somewhat retrieved from memory...)

I did mine Dark Glitter in the (greater than sign, no HTML allowed) ORE (lesser than sign, no HTML allowed) owned region (Outer Ring) and got about 13 units in over one hour.
This time includes the Black Ops jumping of a retriever (with a Blockade Runner), and then docking at a nearby NPC station to Assemble the ship.

Anyways, I also got destroyed , and the insurance of the Retriever was worth more than the value of the Ice or the Retriever cost.

I plan on improving my income ratio, and 2 ships would close to double the income / profit ratio.
3 ships are feasible and would also bring 15 drones into the equation for defense.

Anyways, I think this new ship would be an expedition frigate to test the Ice waters before sending a better equipped mining fleet.
Like its name involved, it may be better suited or designed for Expedition to discover locations to mine Ice.

As for my findings and test results, those are the best I got so far, and it is up to me to use them to improve on my future work to try to increase my income (mining more Dark Glitter).
I may have succeeded to get 1 or 3 units before, but only to lose them in more disastrous ways and with less profit.


Now, the best thing to do when asked to replace the text with current Saved draft (which does show properly before chosing Yes or No btw), is to copy paste the shown or displayed text and keep it somewhere safer than this forum because it can very well delete the Saved draft no matter what choice is used.
It tends to like to switch the command like if it didn't understand what it was doing or talking about.
Taligor Sathul
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2015-11-22 08:20:28 UTC
I don't know if it was mentioned before, the shattered frig holes have all class 6 "Wolf Rayet" effects. That means this ICE mining frig will have almost no tank in it seeing it has a shield bonus and has to stand against 1k dps frigates/destroyers. Any thoughts about this?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#285 - 2015-11-22 12:25:20 UTC
Taligor Sathul wrote:
I don't know if it was mentioned before, the shattered frig holes have all class 6 "Wolf Rayet" effects. That means this ICE mining frig will have almost no tank in it seeing it has a shield bonus and has to stand against 1k dps frigates/destroyers. Any thoughts about this?


Don't get caught?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Taligor Sathul
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#286 - 2015-11-22 13:37:53 UTC
Well I don't want to discuss WR tactics. I'm just curious that a ship that claims to be seeded in a WR has not much of a counter to survive there. Anyway lets see how it works.
Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#287 - 2015-11-22 17:59:54 UTC
Will the Endurance have the full penalty to scan resolution from cloaking devices? It would make sense to remove or reduce that penalty, since the targeting delay is also reduced. The Prospect doesn't have this penalty due to covops cloaks not having it.

I'm curious about why the Endurance won't have the covops cloak though. Why did it not get that ability?
Gadolf Agalder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2015-11-22 19:25:48 UTC
I used to have to tank with the 5 drones and at the time , I don't think that I ran T2 drones yet.
I may be wrong on that, but I think I have screenshots to verify.

Looks like if any explorer wants to go to null-sec ice systems, that they need to get the proper protection to survive the conditions, like I did.
destur
AY YILDIZ
#289 - 2015-11-23 08:11:55 UTC
sory engişh bad :)

venture şhip size 133 m - 5000 m3 ore hold
prospect ship size 139 m - 10 000 m3
discover /maybe ship size 150m / 15 000 m3


hulk ship size 509 m - 8500 m3


what is this
o7

destur-gangway

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#290 - 2015-11-23 13:29:01 UTC
destur wrote:
sory engişh bad :)

venture şhip size 133 m - 5000 m3 ore hold
prospect ship size 139 m - 10 000 m3
discover /maybe ship size 150m / 15 000 m3


hulk ship size 509 m - 8500 m3


what is this
o7




The hulk obviously doesn't dedicate much of its internal space to Ore storage, instead having the power systems to power its three strip miners, and improve them, so it gets the best yield.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Choo Mi
Sneggy Pit
#291 - 2015-11-23 15:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Choo Mi
As a hi-sec ice miner the only time I may use these ships is when setting up in a new system, they will be easy to setup in my HQ then load into an orca or transport.

I am a little worried about the size of the hold though, 15000 is too big for a frigate, it is just making life easier for those who will use it. At worst drop it down to 12000 the same as a prospect, at best 10000 is more than enough.

Looking back at previous posts it appears there will only be 25 places to use this ship at its best, so gankers paradise, add that to the fact they cannot get a mining boost in frigate only areas or even decent hauling and this ship will be used by a couple of wh'ers.

So a bit of a waste of time for almost everyone in the game, instead of making ships this like this please give us a dedicated ice miner with all round capabilities like tank/hold, its about time.

And as a side note putting ore compression on this will suddenly turn it into the most used mining ship in the game and make most of the others pointless for solo miners. Compressor's should be kept out of mining ships, although putting one on an Orca would be fun.
Capsuleer Service Executive
Nornir Research
#292 - 2015-11-24 21:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Capsuleer Service Executive
This thing will be exceedingly hard to gank in high-sec. This assumes you keep your d-scan going and you have known gankers (e.g. CODE.) set red. This thing will be able to orbit ice-mine at high speed and cloak instantly, with a pretty insane align time depending on fitting. If you wanna sit and AFK ice-mine, get a Procurer.

/cse

EACS™ - Estel Arador Capsuleer & Corp Services - Spreading the Love

Regulus Scyssor
Libertalia.
#293 - 2015-11-25 05:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Regulus Scyssor
A Blue Venture

repeat

A Blue Venture

yeaaaahhh Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smile

Quote:
This thing will be exceedingly hard to gank in high-sec.


Exactly Big smile

Venture is love

Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#294 - 2015-11-25 22:09:18 UTC
Choo Mi wrote:
As a hi-sec ice miner the only time I may use these ships is when setting up in a new system, they will be easy to setup in my HQ then load into an orca or transport.

I am a little worried about the size of the hold though, 15000 is too big for a frigate, it is just making life easier for those who will use it. At worst drop it down to 12000 the same as a prospect, at best 10000 is more than enough.

Looking back at previous posts it appears there will only be 25 places to use this ship at its best, so gankers paradise, add that to the fact they cannot get a mining boost in frigate only areas or even decent hauling and this ship will be used by a couple of wh'ers.

So a bit of a waste of time for almost everyone in the game, instead of making ships this like this please give us a dedicated ice miner with all round capabilities like tank/hold, its about time.

And as a side note putting ore compression on this will suddenly turn it into the most used mining ship in the game and make most of the others pointless for solo miners. Compressor's should be kept out of mining ships, although putting one on an Orca would be fun.


The Prospect has a orehold of 10,000.

The new command destroyers should also be able to enter "Frigate Only" wormholes - which would allow for a squad to bring a Foreman boost if they were inclined. (even if there is no mining link gain on the destroyer hull).

Adding a second hull to the Exploration Frigate skill improves the utility to its training. Adding incentive to learn the skill. It lowers the bar for new players to experience all aspects of mining, before the greater investment of time and isk - of barges/exhumers. And has the potential (though I personally believe unlikely) to attract high-sec miners into risk areas, because a frigate hull is certainly a cheaper loss. Currently Prospects sell under the 20m isk, which would be a gauge to expected cost of the Endurance.

Historically the Mackinaw was the dedicated Ice Miner, which it ceased to be following tieracide of the ORE lineup in 2012. A medium rig for Ice Harvesting allows for any Barge/Exhumer to function as a dedicated Ice Miner. Allowing greater flexibility with hull section and remaining a semblance to the theme of "performance vs defence" in fitting choices.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#295 - 2015-11-25 23:11:41 UTC
Ninja mining never worked and never going to work.
About the best it did is ninjaing some arkonor from wh for megacyte, but was never essential, never profitable, never viable.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#296 - 2015-11-25 23:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Orca Platypus
Penance Toralen wrote:
It lowers the bar for new players to experience all aspects of mining, before the greater investment of time and isk - of barges/exhumers.

Both time and isk are less on Procurer.

Penance Toralen wrote:
And has the potential (though I personally believe unlikely) to attract high-sec miners into risk areas, because a frigate hull is certainly a cheaper loss. Currently Prospects sell under the 20m isk, which would be a gauge to expected cost of the Endurance.

Zero likely. I presume it will be used by low/null dwellers (aside obvious wh use) to have an ice miner which can cloak up. But that use isn't going to be much as the first ganktard coming in and seeing someone in local would just camp the system, making it all irrelevant - there is no barge in the game which can mine with hostiles in local (skiff would just die longer).

Penance Toralen wrote:
Historically the Mackinaw was the dedicated Ice Miner, which it ceased to be following tieracide of the ORE lineup in 2012. A medium rig for Ice Harvesting allows for any Barge/Exhumer to function as a dedicated Ice Miner. Allowing greater flexibility with hull section and remaining a semblance to the theme of "performance vs defence" in fitting choices.

There are no fitting choices currently because all barges currently suck, Hulk and Covetor just suck a bit less. Mining in anything but Hulk is self-ganking every few hours due to lost profit from not mining in Hulk. It makes stupid people mad when you mine in Skiff because they can't gank you, but as far as mining goes, the cost you pay for not being ganked by third-party stupid is being self-ganked by your own stupid.
Capsuleer Service Executive
Nornir Research
#297 - 2015-11-26 05:49:28 UTC
Again, tried Google translate on the wall of text above, couldn't decipher the intent.

This will be used A LOT in high-risk areas, and even in vanilla high-sec anoms. There are PLENTY of other uses for this ship, if you can't theorycraft it or figure it out you are doing it wrong. I'm not talking PvP, either, though Endurancelol fleets are possible.

I personally have crafted a gas/ice expedition frigate alt just for this ship/family. Cant wait!

/cse

EACS™ - Estel Arador Capsuleer & Corp Services - Spreading the Love

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#298 - 2015-11-26 12:11:21 UTC
Capsuleer Service Executive wrote:
Again, tried Google translate on the wall of text above, couldn't decipher the intent.

You mean me?

Capsuleer Service Executive wrote:
This will be used A LOT in high-risk areas

No. Even wormholers would probably only deploy miners after sealing the exits.

Capsuleer Service Executive wrote:
and even in vanilla high-sec anoms.

Never. It loses in everything but the hold to the worst barge - Procurer.

Capsuleer Service Executive wrote:
There are PLENTY of other uses for this ship, if you can't theorycraft it or figure it out you are doing it wrong. I'm not talking PvP, either, though Endurancelol fleets are possible.

I personally have crafted a gas/ice expedition frigate alt just for this ship/family. Cant wait!

/cse


Costs too much for a lolfleet, cruisers are cheaper.
Compressed ore hauler - too weak and no covops cloak.
Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#299 - 2015-11-26 17:28:17 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
Never. It loses in everything but the hold to the worst barge - Procurer.

"Worst" barge? Depends on your idea of what is good or bad. I personally quite like the Procurer, and solo mining it performs significantly better than the Covetor.

Orca Platypus wrote:
There are no fitting choices currently because all barges currently suck, Hulk and Covetor just suck a bit less. Mining in anything but Hulk is self-ganking every few hours due to lost profit from not mining in Hulk

Hulk and Covetor are only good if you're mining with hauling support, otherwise the Retriever/Mackinaw or Procurer/Skiff are far better
Capsuleer Service Executive
Nornir Research
#300 - 2015-11-26 18:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Capsuleer Service Executive
I fail to see how this is worse than a Procurer (for ice mining). Lets use a classic CODE. gank scenario. Assuming your head is up your ShockedShockedShocked and you fail to recognize reds enter the system. A fast cruiser or frigate will be the warp-in for the gankers. With a Procurer/Retreiver, you will more than likely be holding still and be easily killed/bumped/dead. With the Endurance, you SHOULD be orbiting well off the ice rock at high speed, giving the ability to instantly change direction, evade the bump, cloak and/or warp off, or at the very least move out of Catalyst optimal range.

Tell me again why these won't be used?

Ore hauler? Too weak? OK - the Prospect can covert cloak. You do realize this thing can warp INSTANTLY after decloaking without a propmod? It will be quite a nice hauler. In fact with hyperspatials and cargo rigs/expands it will quite a good one, and quite frankly a lot cheaper than a BR. Shall I go on?

Too expensive for lolfleet? You think Goons give a PiratePiratePiratePirate about money? LOL.


/cse

EACS™ - Estel Arador Capsuleer & Corp Services - Spreading the Love