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The bad mechanics of high sec ganking

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Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#121 - 2015-10-02 08:20:52 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
No. Get a bigger logi support.

-1


So 40 Logis for every freighter in high sec and tidi in every system. Well thought out response.

-1 Blink

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#122 - 2015-10-02 08:35:09 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
No. Get a bigger logi support.

-1


So 40 Logis for every freighter in high sec and tidi in every system. Well thought out response.

-1 Blink


3 will do.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2015-10-02 08:35:32 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
The only time I have seen a Freighter in nullsec (not a Jump Freighter, but straight Freighter) we killed it.

Actually, I tackled it with my interceptor as I passed it in travel just by chance. About 5 minutes later my fleet arrived (had already stood down from our roam, so quickly reformed) and we began killing it. However we were interrupted by a larger fleet, who also spotted it in travel, and they got the final kill and loot.

Freighters don't travel in null or low generally. The risks are much greater.

There might be situations within an Alliance's sov space where they feel secure enough to get a freighter to and from a jump bridge, but Freighters flying through null/low and using gates just doesn't happen because they are not very defendable. Seriously, any alliance big enough to defend one just uses a jump freighter, which is quicker, so less boring for the support, and much safer.


Well done, you tackled a freighter in null sec and let someone else kill it.

Like most people, you are missing the point. If jump freighters didn't exist, which they never used to, and you had to take a freighter 10 jumps through your own alliance space. You would still have better defensive options than you would in high sec.

You can actively kill hostiles before they get anywhere near your freighter in null sec. You do not have that option in high sec.


so in a nutshell instead of removing ganking lets remove system security, make everything nullsec, i fixed it for you :)

most gankers are -10.0 anyway so they can be engaged anywhere, do you think your freighter in nullsec has any defence against the blops fleet that cynos on you from dscan immune covert cyno ship?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#124 - 2015-10-02 08:38:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Tabyll Altol wrote:
No. Get a bigger logi support.

-1


So 40 Logis for every freighter in high sec and tidi in every system. Well thought out response.

-1 Blink


3 will do.



Sorry. -3 then.

Blink

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#125 - 2015-10-02 08:40:39 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
The only time I have seen a Freighter in nullsec (not a Jump Freighter, but straight Freighter) we killed it.

Actually, I tackled it with my interceptor as I passed it in travel just by chance. About 5 minutes later my fleet arrived (had already stood down from our roam, so quickly reformed) and we began killing it. However we were interrupted by a larger fleet, who also spotted it in travel, and they got the final kill and loot.

Freighters don't travel in null or low generally. The risks are much greater.

There might be situations within an Alliance's sov space where they feel secure enough to get a freighter to and from a jump bridge, but Freighters flying through null/low and using gates just doesn't happen because they are not very defendable. Seriously, any alliance big enough to defend one just uses a jump freighter, which is quicker, so less boring for the support, and much safer.


Well done, you tackled a freighter in null sec and let someone else kill it.

Like most people, you are missing the point. If jump freighters didn't exist, which they never used to, and you had to take a freighter 10 jumps through your own alliance space. You would still have better defensive options than you would in high sec.

You can actively kill hostiles before they get anywhere near your freighter in null sec. You do not have that option in high sec.


so in a nutshell instead of removing ganking lets remove system security, make everything nullsec, i fixed it for you :)

most gankers are -10.0 anyway so they can be engaged anywhere, do you think your freighter in nullsec has any defence against the blops fleet that cynos on you from dscan immune covert cyno ship?


No. Hence why a support fleet helps

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2015-10-02 08:48:41 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
The only time I have seen a Freighter in nullsec (not a Jump Freighter, but straight Freighter) we killed it.

Actually, I tackled it with my interceptor as I passed it in travel just by chance. About 5 minutes later my fleet arrived (had already stood down from our roam, so quickly reformed) and we began killing it. However we were interrupted by a larger fleet, who also spotted it in travel, and they got the final kill and loot.

Freighters don't travel in null or low generally. The risks are much greater.

There might be situations within an Alliance's sov space where they feel secure enough to get a freighter to and from a jump bridge, but Freighters flying through null/low and using gates just doesn't happen because they are not very defendable. Seriously, any alliance big enough to defend one just uses a jump freighter, which is quicker, so less boring for the support, and much safer.


Well done, you tackled a freighter in null sec and let someone else kill it.

Like most people, you are missing the point. If jump freighters didn't exist, which they never used to, and you had to take a freighter 10 jumps through your own alliance space. You would still have better defensive options than you would in high sec.

You can actively kill hostiles before they get anywhere near your freighter in null sec. You do not have that option in high sec.


so in a nutshell instead of removing ganking lets remove system security, make everything nullsec, i fixed it for you :)

most gankers are -10.0 anyway so they can be engaged anywhere, do you think your freighter in nullsec has any defence against the blops fleet that cynos on you from dscan immune covert cyno ship?


No. Hence why a support fleet helps


but nobody takes support fleets in highsec because people are greedy and want to play solo and just rake in isk. as said nothing stops highsec freighters having support and gankers are engageable anywhere.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2015-10-02 08:51:58 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:


No. Hence why a support fleet helps


Not much when a super or dive by titan lands on said freighter.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#128 - 2015-10-02 08:56:08 UTC
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#129 - 2015-10-02 09:45:29 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Oh wow this is still going.

Should probably show you this then

CCP Falcon wrote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

Smile




CCP Falcon, Community Manager.

Not a game designer or even senior game designer.

And are you saying because someone from CCP said it once it means it law for all time?

Yeah because CCP never changed their mind on anything. And that whole post is based on bringing guns to protect you hauler, which as we have said, doesn't help. Someone posted that quote on page 2. But thanks for the bump!

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2015-10-02 09:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
what does a game designer have to do with the direction of the game? flacon works for ccp, that should be enough.

ok remove ganking from highsec, what next? make haulers immune so they cant deliver assets anywhere they want safely, highsec would just become an autopilot botting themepark. not to mention the market would take a hit because people dont lose assets as much

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#131 - 2015-10-02 09:57:20 UTC
the easiest way to stop a bump fest is to suicide 1 or 2 char's (recommend 2 toons) and scram the mach when he is fathest away from the freighter, giving the freighter time to warp off.

if concord pop the first one, reapply with the second toon, to extend the time.

you can also refit the freighter with inertia stabs using a Nestor to give it a chance of aligning out.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2015-10-02 10:01:09 UTC
I think we can all agree on the following:


  • Ganking needs to stay.
  • The current model is crappy and could stand to be fixed (bumps/webs are dumb and should be revisited)
  • Changing the current model will be non trivial and probably not pan out as any of us expect, were it to happen
  • OP is resistant to any form of work to ensure his safety
  • This thread should have been locked on page 2
  • Ganking needs to stay.


Can we close the troll down now, please?
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#133 - 2015-10-02 10:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Multsanti
afkalt wrote:
I think we can all agree on the following:


  • Ganking needs to stay.
  • The current model is crappy and could stand to be fixed (bumps/webs are dumb and should be revisited)
  • Changing the current model will be non trivial and probably not pan out as any of us expect, were it to happen
  • OP is resistant to any form of work to ensure his safety
  • This thread should have been locked on page 2
  • Ganking needs to stay.


Can we close the troll down now, please?



I think we agree on not everything but a lot.


  • Ganking can stay as long as you have a way to defend yourself better from it.
  • The current model is crappy and could stand to be fixed (bumps/webs are dumb and should be revisited)
  • Changing the current model will be non trivial and probably not pan out as any of us expect, were it to happen
  • OP uses blockade runners in high sec.
  • This thread should be a healthy discussion on replacing current bad mechanics with good ones.
  • Ganking can stay as long as you have a way to defend yourself better from it.



I'll even update the title for you, as i was using it to get a reaction. Now we are on page 7, title revision deployed.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2015-10-02 10:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
If you want to talk about the ability to deprive someone of control of their vessel in highsec, without tripping aggression I wish you the best of luck.

The situation is FOOBAR, but you'll never get past the people defending it on principle alone.

And besides that, if, IF CCP did change it, it wouldn't be to make people safer.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-10-02 10:11:51 UTC
can you explain the positive affects this would have on the game? specifically the market?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#136 - 2015-10-02 10:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Multsanti
Lan Wang wrote:
can you explain the positive affects this would have on the game? specifically the market?



You can make people just as vulnerable in high sec we be revamping the war declaration system. If CCP want's everything destoryable then they can make everyone war deccable.

You assumptions on the effects of the market are pure speculation and no one really knows what would happen to market if gankers had to declare war on those juicy freighter targets. Markets evolve and adapt.


The above argument is focused on removing high sec ganking. If we are talking about updating the mechanics of said ganking. then not much will change at all. But again, who knows.

Also there will be positive effects on player retention if ganking is made fairer and less one sided. Thats a positive for cpp and the game right?

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2015-10-02 10:20:55 UTC
but what about npc corps? everything should be wardeccable so remove npc corps, good luck just driving people out of the game by having no immunity, corps would just wardec everything they could and gankers would be just simply immune to any sort of criminal activity, that does not provide any sort of solution to your so called problem

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2015-10-02 10:25:23 UTC
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
can you explain the positive affects this would have on the game? specifically the market?



You can make people just as vulnerable in high sec we be revamping the war declaration system. If CCP want's everything destoryable then they can make everyone war deccable.

You assumptions on the effects of the market are pure speculation and no one really knows what would happen to market if gankers had to declare war on those juicy freighter targets. Markets evolve and adapt.


The above argument is focused on removing high sec ganking. If we are talking about updating the mechanics of said ganking. then not much will change at all. But again, who knows.

Also there will be positive effects on player retention if ganking is made fairer and less one sided. Thats a positive for cpp and the game right?


The only threat haulers, miners and mission runners face in highsec comes from gankers.
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#139 - 2015-10-02 10:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Multsanti
Lan Wang wrote:
but what about npc corps? everything should be wardeccable so remove npc corps, good luck just driving people out of the game by having no immunity, corps would just wardec everything they could and gankers would be just simply immune to any sort of criminal activity, that does not provide any sort of solution to your so called problem


You don't have to remove NPC corps but you eject new players from NPC corps and moving them to their races militia after one month in the game. Either that or they find/start their own corp. Even CCP agree that player retention is improved when new players join a player corp and stop flying solo.

As for players who leave their current corp. they go straight into their races militia.

I like how you argue against immunity in one post, then the absolute opposite in another.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Christopher Multsanti
Disaster Area
DISASTER Delivery Service
#140 - 2015-10-02 10:38:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Christopher Multsanti wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
can you explain the positive affects this would have on the game? specifically the market?



You can make people just as vulnerable in high sec we be revamping the war declaration system. If CCP want's everything destoryable then they can make everyone war deccable.

You assumptions on the effects of the market are pure speculation and no one really knows what would happen to market if gankers had to declare war on those juicy freighter targets. Markets evolve and adapt.


The above argument is focused on removing high sec ganking. If we are talking about updating the mechanics of said ganking. then not much will change at all. But again, who knows.

Also there will be positive effects on player retention if ganking is made fairer and less one sided. Thats a positive for cpp and the game right?


The only threat haulers, miners and mission runners face in highsec comes from gankers.


Eve has wars. So not that's not the only threat. Do you know the figures on how many people in NPC corps? I don't.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!