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Epic problem with strategic cruisers? EHP vs sustained damage received
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-09-26 11:43:08 UTC

Are you sure those stats are bogus? Because I think they affect the damage received per alpha volley. For example: a shield will go faster down when shot with em charges even if it has huge em resists while an armor tank with relatively lower em resists will last longer to the same amount of em damage. Eft numbers are bogus because they show an omni tank. That tank is fictive because, like you say, all that matters is resists vs damage type.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#22 - 2015-09-26 11:50:28 UTC
EHP shows how much damage needs to be done to you to chew through all your hitpoints.

If I have 100 HP and 50% resist it will take 200 damage to destroy my 100 HP. Meaning my EHP is 200. If I die, the killboard will still show a ship that died having a 100 HP.

Only repairs will increase this number (local or remote), because it adds back HP you lost. Meaning it actually requires more hitpoints to be removed (damage) before you die.
Arec Bardwin
#23 - 2015-09-26 12:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Arec Bardwin
Epic problem indeed Lol
Mr De
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2015-09-26 12:51:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr De
Yarda Black wrote:
EHP shows how much damage needs to be done to you to chew through all your hitpoints.

If I have 100 HP and 50% resist it will take 200 damage to destroy my 100 HP. Meaning my EHP is 200. If I die, the killboard will still show a ship that died having a 100 HP.

Only repairs will increase this number (local or remote), because it adds back HP you lost. Meaning it actually requires more hitpoints to be removed (damage) before you die.


Agreed. This brings me back to the original problem that I have. In the case of the loki I lost, 6 thrashers were able to do, apparently, 150,000 points of damage to my loki within 2-3 seconds. I had no active modules, so I didn't need to activate anything in order for the resistances to take effect. So if I have 90% resistances across the board, and have 10K armor HP, then whoever is shooting at me should have to do 9 times the damage, because of the 90% reduction due to resistances, which would mean that I would have to sustain 90,000 pts of damage before my shields are gone?

If that is the case, it doesn't explain my personal example of losing a loki to 5 thrashers and a stiletto in about 10 seconds. But using the example in this post, the opposing fleet failed to do 130,000 pts of damage in an extremely short amount of time. I was watching and he jumped into system, decloaked, engaged, was able to kill 1 destroyer before he was killed. He hadnt even made it 1000 meters back towards gate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2015-09-26 13:06:36 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Straight
Not empty quoting.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#26 - 2015-09-26 13:07:14 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Are you sure those stats are bogus?


Yes, very.
Arla Sarain
#27 - 2015-09-26 13:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Resistances reduce the damage taken. They don't increase the health pool.

If you have 2 health and a damage type that deals 1 damage but is halved by resistances, it would take you 4 hits to deplete the pool. Which is effectively dealing 1 damage to 4 health. Still takes 4 hits. But you only have 2 health. You can't receive more than that unless it was replenished.
That's what EHP tells you, kind of, because not all resist profiles are uniform. With a DCU, all hull pools are 2.5x times higher against everything.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#28 - 2015-09-26 13:53:55 UTC
Is the EHP calculated using omni damage?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#29 - 2015-09-26 13:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
Metal Icarus wrote:
Is the EHP calculated using omni damage?


That depends, ingame number is based on your lowest resists per tank type (which is kinda silly), EFT takes the average of all 4 types per tank type (which is probably the most logical). You can use/add damage profiles to EFT and select those and THEN calculate EHP (like figuring out how much EHP you have vs antimatter, the ganker's ammo of choice)

In this case his number correspondents with the EFT #.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-09-26 18:15:22 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Eft numbers are bogus because they show an omni tank. That tank is fictive because, like you say, all that matters is resists vs damage type.
This is true (sort of... EFT considers omni damage unless you tell her otherwise, not omni tank).

Gimme Sake wrote:
Are you sure those stats are bogus? Because I think they affect the damage received per alpha volley. For example: a shield will go faster down when shot with em charges even if it has huge em resists while an armor tank with relatively lower em resists will last longer to the same amount of em damage.
This is hilarious, in a creative way. Lol

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-26 20:57:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
This is hilarious, in a creative way. Lol


Well, in game invention requires too much time invested in skill and research so I dedicate myself to creatively dissecting aspects of the game that, obviously, aren't there. Cool

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#32 - 2015-09-26 21:19:30 UTC
Raw HP is being reported. OP, you should also play with 'damage type' in PYFA or EFT. Your 133k fit would be about 100k vs explosive.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-09-27 05:12:30 UTC
OP in case anyone hasnt told you yet,.....

I think it has something to do with raw ehp and raw resiststors. Somethung about eft and python.

What if they are shield buffer fit or hull buffer tanked fitted then?
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#34 - 2015-09-27 05:42:16 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Is the EHP calculated using omni damage?


That depends, ingame number is based on your lowest resists per tank type (which is kinda silly), EFT takes the average of all 4 types per tank type (which is probably the most logical). You can use/add damage profiles to EFT and select those and THEN calculate EHP (like figuring out how much EHP you have vs antimatter, the ganker's ammo of choice)

In this case his number correspondents with the EFT #.

How is that silly? It's a guarantee that your ship will tank at least that amount of damage, regardless of type.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#35 - 2015-09-27 07:15:50 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Is the EHP calculated using omni damage?


That depends, ingame number is based on your lowest resists per tank type (which is kinda silly), EFT takes the average of all 4 types per tank type (which is probably the most logical). You can use/add damage profiles to EFT and select those and THEN calculate EHP (like figuring out how much EHP you have vs antimatter, the ganker's ammo of choice)

In this case his number correspondents with the EFT #.

How is that silly? It's a guarantee that your ship will tank at least that amount of damage, regardless of type.


it assumes that you get hit by exactly 1 damage type which will switch depending on whether you're shield or armour, not saying that can't happen just saying that it's probably the least realistic or useful way of calculating it.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#36 - 2015-09-27 08:36:33 UTC
It doesn't matter that that's the assumption, again it's just a statement saying that you'll be able to take that amount of damage, at the very least.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#37 - 2015-09-27 09:00:09 UTC
It's unrealistic and as such it gives an unrealistic number, making it useless.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#38 - 2015-09-27 09:08:50 UTC
...but it's not useless, because it tells you that your ship will be able to tank, at the very least, that amount of damage.

I don't know why that's apparently so confusing to you, and I have no idea how to make this any clearer.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#39 - 2015-09-27 09:23:39 UTC
It's not confusing at all, but nice try.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-09-27 11:06:00 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
It doesn't matter that that's the assumption, again it's just a statement saying that you'll be able to take that amount of damage, at the very least.


His point, if I'm reading right, is that the EHP shown in EVE is worked out in an unrealistic way. Pretend that you have 10k shield with your weakest resist being EM, eve will work out your ehp in shield; then it will check your armor HP and scale that by your armor's lowest resist and then the same for hull. Since your weakest resist in each isn't likely to be the same this means the EHP number in EVE is assuming your enemy is switching ammo for the exact best one per layer of defence, not a realistic assumption.

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