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Vanguard Skill Point Changes

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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#21 - 2015-09-24 18:45:10 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
CCP cant make everyone happy all the time.

When it comes to the entitlement of its playerbase, its not 'all the time', its 'ever'.




So what's the SP thread theme animal gonna be then?


Hmm.. lets see... weve done Platypus and Narwhal, 'eve is dying' got Harry Potter Fan Fiction, there was something else in there somewhere.. Cats are out as they run Exploration sites on peoples accounts... Dogs.. no... not dogs.

How about either Trash Pandas (Racoons) or Cat Snakes (Ferrets)? Would either of those be acceptable?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-09-24 18:50:27 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dude, most of us have forgotten to update our skillque for longer than this, I'm missing about a month worth of sp I "paid for"
By forgetting to sort myself out after a jump clone, do you see me whinging about it?


That's your problem/fault then. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Paranoid Loyd
#23 - 2015-09-24 18:51:44 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
How about either Trash Pandas (Racoons) or Cat Snakes (Ferrets)? Would either of those be acceptable?
Ooh ferrets sound intriguing.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-09-24 18:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Riko
Gen Mo'Kai wrote:
Why do you think you are entitled to anything?
You started playing 5 months ago and got 40k SP to play with. Apparently that was enough to keep you playing the game. Now they are changing some rules and giving NEW players some skills you already have. This has NO EFFECT on you, except you might see more people around that actually decided to subscribe to the game, which is a good thing!

Don't go asking around for free stuff when you don't deserve/need it.



GTFO
I've never implied I should be given stuff for free. My point is that why should new players now receive stuff (SP) for free? If CCP has deemed that it's good for the game to have more starting points then why do they feel that it isn't needed for the older players? Because they've already received our money?

If I'm totally honest I would happily start the game with 0 SP and have everyone else in the same boat. It's the principal that matters more to me than the actual SP difference. The fact that troglodytes on this forum can't understand that shouldn't be a surprise to me to be honest.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-09-24 18:57:34 UTC
Goontears. My favorite!

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Maekchu
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-09-24 18:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Johnny Riko wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dude, most of us have forgotten to update our skillque for longer than this, I'm missing about a month worth of sp I "paid for"
By forgetting to sort myself out after a jump clone, do you see me whinging about it?


That's your problem/fault then. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

It has everything to do with this discussion, cause the point is valid. 400k SP can be lost over the time of 5months, if you haven't optimized your attributes for perfect skill time, forgot to update the queue or not being in a clone with attribute implants.

Since you are already 5 months ahead of any newbie today, you already have a huge SP advantage over them. If you'd have optimized your skill training from the start, you probably would have already earned those 400k SP or be well on your way to earn that and more.

Feeling the entitlement for those 400k is a moot point, since you already have an advantage from creating your character earlier thus resulting in a higher amount of SP.

Should a newbie feel entitled for the amount of SP older players have, just cause they didn't create their character early enough? Just be happy that the newbies got a little treat.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2015-09-24 19:00:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
How about either Trash Pandas (Racoons) or Cat Snakes (Ferrets)? Would either of those be acceptable?
Ooh ferrets sound intriguing.
One ferret as ordered.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Maekchu
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-09-24 19:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Double post -.-
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#29 - 2015-09-24 19:03:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
How about either Trash Pandas (Racoons) or Cat Snakes (Ferrets)? Would either of those be acceptable?
Ooh ferrets sound intriguing.
One ferret as ordered.


It is settled then. From this moment on, the response to all things SP shall be.. The mischievous Ferret!

So say we all!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#30 - 2015-09-24 19:10:00 UTC
I have lost about 2.3 million SP across several characters due to a slight miscommunication with clonestations. My order was lost and the clone not there.

Since CCP has removed the SP loss I feel entitled to a retroactive reimbursement of those skillpoints. But I'm not even really asking this for myself btw. This is for those who lost alot more skillpoints before CCP wisened up.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2015-09-24 19:10:27 UTC
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-09-24 19:10:40 UTC
Back in 2008 new chars started with 900k SP, they've always been toying with the starter char stuff. I'm not really for or against it but I would like to know the rationale behind it.

- is this a request from CSM members from a "certain group" who convinced CCP that it would be "better for the game", but really only tried to make it happen so they can make more lol-gank chars?

- is this CCP going "we don't know what we're doing but we're dropping subs so we gotta do something. Quickly, give out free stuff!"

- is there an actual valid, well reasoned logic for it?
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-09-24 19:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Riko
Maekchu wrote:
Johnny Riko wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dude, most of us have forgotten to update our skillque for longer than this, I'm missing about a month worth of sp I "paid for"
By forgetting to sort myself out after a jump clone, do you see me whinging about it?


That's your problem/fault then. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

It has everything to do with this discussion, cause the point is valid. 400k SP can be lost over the time of 5months, if you haven't optimized your attributes for perfect skill time, forgot to update the queue or not being in a clone with attribute implants.

Since you are already 5 months ahead of any newbie today, you already have a huge SP advantage over them. If you'd have optimized your skill training from the start, you probably would have already earned those 400k SP or be well on your way to earn that and more.

Feeling the entitlement for those 400k is a moot point, since you already have an advantage from creating your character earlier thus resulting in a higher amount of SP.

Should a newbie feel entitled for the amount of SP older players have, just cause they didn't create their character early enough? Just be happy that the newbies got a little treat.



Lol such hypocrisy on the forums.

*extended down time for ~12 hours* "GIVE US OUR MISSING ESS PEE!!!!!!!!!!"

*two weeks training time made redundant* "Ah who cares, it's not much in the grand scheme of things..."


Edit:

To the above poster, I'm inclined to say it's an "oh ****, we are losing subs and better do something!" Knee jerk reaction. Ultimately it changes nothing. The hardest part about a new player in eve isn't SP, it's the steep learning curve and poor guidance to get players on their feet.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-09-24 19:12:18 UTC
As far as I'm concerned CCP can give fresh newbies 1 million sp. And a cat or ferret, I don't mind. Why shouldn't new players receive free stuff? What if every new player would start demanding to retroactively be gifted free stuff, like a full Geno set for example?

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2015-09-24 19:14:07 UTC
Maekchu wrote:

It has everything to do with this discussion, cause the point is valid. 400k SP can be lost over the time of 5months, if you haven't optimized your attributes for perfect skill time, forgot to update the queue or not being in a clone with attribute implants.

As a point of comparison, the 350k SP gap is the difference you see between having +5 implants rather than +3s for 81 days.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-09-24 19:14:26 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Johnny Riko wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dude, most of us have forgotten to update our skillque for longer than this, I'm missing about a month worth of sp I "paid for"
By forgetting to sort myself out after a jump clone, do you see me whinging about it?


That's your problem/fault then. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

It has everything to do with this discussion, cause the point is valid. 400k SP can be lost over the time of 5months, if you haven't optimized your attributes for perfect skill time, forgot to update the queue or not being in a clone with attribute implants.

Since you are already 5 months ahead of any newbie today, you already have a huge SP advantage over them. If you'd have optimized your skill training from the start, you probably would have already earned those 400k SP or be well on your way to earn that and more.

Feeling the entitlement for those 400k is a moot point, since you already have an advantage from creating your character earlier thus resulting in a higher amount of SP.

Should a newbie feel entitled for the amount of SP older players have, just cause they didn't create their character early enough? Just be happy that the newbies got a little treat.



Lol such hypocrisy on the forums.

*extended down time for ~12 hours* "GIVE US OUR MISSING ESS PEE!!!!!!!!!!"

*two weeks training time made redundant* "Ah who cares, it's not much in the grand scheme of things..."

Actually, if you check my post history. You will not see me at any point cry for free SP cause of the blackout that happened. Honestly, I couldn't care less. It just meant I didn't play EvE that day and I went on to do other things.

Was I surprised in a positive way that I got free SP? Sure...
Did I feel entitled for free SP, cause I lost a day in-game, while I still had a running skill queue? No...

To be honest, I feel the people feeling entitled for free SP cause of the downtime were people like... well, you.
Jatok Reknar
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#37 - 2015-09-24 19:17:09 UTC
I joined May 2013. I believe i was a 2-3 week player when Odyssey hit and Battlecruisers became individual racial battlecruisers. I was not aware enough of the expansion cycles so I remember having 8 days left when I heard about the change before it went live. It was not enough for my new clone to train BC V. Wish I had at least trained Destroyer V. lol. Did it hurt? Yea, can't deny that. But in the long scheme of things, its all fine imho.

I hear of old bros having "learning skills" to train to improve training times. Imagine that P Also, skill queues are much more flexible now in terms of how much you can queue up. Again, the clone cost change recently I imagine was wonderful for the bittervets in that they can undock and have fun in some t1 frig and not have a clone cost as much as a battleship when you eventually get podded.

My point is, if you stick with eve for a few years, there will be changes that put you at a slight disadvantage depending on when you started and where you put most of your SPs. This is especially true if your a new-ish player and your skills are disproportionality skewed towards certain fits or ships/strategies. And there are other changes that definitely benefit you clearly by addressing long standing issues people had to put up with.

I think overall, it is a better time than ever for a new guy to come into eve. I have no complaint about that. :)
Thomas Lot
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2015-09-24 19:17:30 UTC
Someone needs to turn a key here.
Sharps
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-09-24 19:19:01 UTC
But seriously what is the game-breaking reason we can't simply give 350k to everyone and solve this?

- Brand new characters need the boost. Everyone likes this.

- Bittervets are strong independent characters who don't need no 350k because they have so much SP. This is known.

- But somewhere in the middle, there are characters who have varying levels of need. Apparently this makes them entitled whiners.

It seems like there's a nice linear progression of the usefulness of 350k relative to existing SP. Seems like a no-brainer to just give it to everyone.
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-09-24 19:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Riko
Maekchu wrote:
Johnny Riko wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Johnny Riko wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dude, most of us have forgotten to update our skillque for longer than this, I'm missing about a month worth of sp I "paid for"
By forgetting to sort myself out after a jump clone, do you see me whinging about it?


That's your problem/fault then. That has nothing to do with this discussion.

It has everything to do with this discussion, cause the point is valid. 400k SP can be lost over the time of 5months, if you haven't optimized your attributes for perfect skill time, forgot to update the queue or not being in a clone with attribute implants.

Since you are already 5 months ahead of any newbie today, you already have a huge SP advantage over them. If you'd have optimized your skill training from the start, you probably would have already earned those 400k SP or be well on your way to earn that and more.

Feeling the entitlement for those 400k is a moot point, since you already have an advantage from creating your character earlier thus resulting in a higher amount of SP.

Should a newbie feel entitled for the amount of SP older players have, just cause they didn't create their character early enough? Just be happy that the newbies got a little treat.



Lol such hypocrisy on the forums.

*extended down time for ~12 hours* "GIVE US OUR MISSING ESS PEE!!!!!!!!!!"

*two weeks training time made redundant* "Ah who cares, it's not much in the grand scheme of things..."

Actually, if you check my post history. You will not see me at any point cry for free SP cause of the blackout that happened. Honestly, I couldn't care less. It just meant I didn't play EvE that day and I went on to do other things.

Was I surprised in a positive way that I got free SP? Sure...
Did I feel entitled for free SP, cause I lost a day in-game, while I still had a running skill queue? No...

To be honest, I feel the people feeling entitled for free SP cause of the downtime were people like... well, you.



You really don't get it do you.
If you check my post history you will see I'm strongly adverse to increasing the skill points newbies get, and I never supported the idea of giving SP for the extended downtime.
The point of this thread is highlighting the hypocrisy in CCP's policy. In my opinion, this would be much more fair reallocation of SP compared to giving SP to something everyone, new and old experienced/was affected by.


So far the only argument I've seen against giving everyone 350k SP is that I'm an entitled little *****. Solid argument/logic from the bittervets as per usual.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.