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CCP's bad business model (Ship Skins)

Author
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#61 - 2015-09-23 08:01:43 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Hopefully they can fleece as much as they can from those who want to play space barbie and put it into more interesting features.

Nice shirt, Bro!

Hehe well spotted. I am all for character and ship customisation, I just think the way they implemented skins is not interesting at all. The elaborate explanation for how it works is terrible, they don't obey any of the fundamental principles in eve. ie the items are not destructible or tradable once injected, and they offer a relatively low degree of customisation.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2015-09-23 12:52:39 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
[i]Did you know some games now use operatives to haunt forums

<-- CIA operative ShockedLol Yeah, I pass intel and orders to the goons on what to do.
Forget western style cowboy hats, CCP tinfoil hats, naow! Lol


You are not very good at that whole "secret" thing. You are fired.
Chocolate Mooses
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#63 - 2015-09-23 14:22:34 UTC
Also the price of PLEX is too high, ganking should be punished by flogging, eve is dying, and grrrr gons.
Ortus Maleficus
Lambent Enterprises
#64 - 2015-09-23 15:04:45 UTC
My problem with ship skins is that they're not "look at me" enough.

Before the SKIN system, they were special ships. That was cool -- you felt like a bad ass flying something special.

Now no one gives a **** what my skips colors are.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#65 - 2015-09-23 15:08:02 UTC
What's with the barrage of hate threads lately? they've always been around but it seems there's far more of them right now than one would expect given the decent state of the game atm.
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-09-23 15:44:12 UTC
Make one SKIN apply to a range of different hulls and I'll gladly pay 4 to 8 dollars for one. But 8 bucks for a skin on 1 ship? No thanks. Too expensive. Especially since, let's be realistic here, I'm the only one who is ever going to really see it. The only SKINs worth getting for the purpose of showing off are capital skins.

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Anthar Thebess
#67 - 2015-09-23 15:48:40 UTC
They are fine , they don't imbalance game .
For me AURUM should be only available by $ purchases not by plex exchange.

Now instead of giving $ to game , they just burn plex supplies stocked on many player accounts.
Zebator Melkan
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2015-09-23 16:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zebator Melkan
Ortus Maleficus wrote:
My problem with ship skins is that they're not "look at me" enough.

Before the SKIN system, they were special ships. That was cool -- you felt like a bad ass flying something special.

Now no one gives a **** what my skips colors are.




Re-using unique skins and selling them is bullshit!

The only skins that should be available for purchase are new skins specifically created for purchase.

Also if they had done this correctly, I would have easily spent a couple hundred bucks on skins over time. Now I will probably only buy one or two.

The real joke is on me though as the one skin I really want was in an early spy shot and isn't available. With my luck probably never will.

So if it the goal is to make money they failed, at least with me.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2015-09-23 18:05:15 UTC
Ortus Maleficus wrote:
My problem with ship skins is that they're not "look at me" enough.

Before the SKIN system, they were special ships. That was cool -- you felt like a bad ass flying something special.

Now no one gives a **** what my skips colors are.


People never cared about the color of your Ship. People start caring when the actual hull is rare, no matter the color. So don't worry - if you are flying around in your Armageddon Imperial Issue, people will still want to kill you. And if you decide to sell your Guardian Vexor you will still get bajillions of ISK for it. Skins don't replace special edition and AT ships, and neither should they. You can still be a snowflake with a rare ship.
Marsha Mallow
#70 - 2015-09-23 20:32:07 UTC
Chocolate Mooses wrote:
ganking should be punished by flogging

You want to punish the people killing afk porn addicts by... making them watch porn?
>.>
'Log before you flog' is just as important as 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose'. And it should be enforced, creatively.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#71 - 2015-09-23 20:40:49 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
'Log before you flog' is just as important as 'don't fly what you can't afford to lose'.
I lolled IRL.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#72 - 2015-09-23 21:49:48 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Skins are simply a money spinner for CCP, and have no relevance in the game. It is disappointing as destructible shiny painted corp and faction ships was something a lot of people were looking forward to. This has pushed that prospect way into the future now if ever at all..

This.

When they announced skins, many people, including me, thought that we would finally get a way to customize the looks of your ships. They even showed us an awesome editor for selfmade skins! What did we get in the end? Overpriced, prefabricated skins. ~12€ for a skin which can only be used on 1 battleship. Thats ridiculously expensive.

The SKIN feature in its current form is a huge waste of potential.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#73 - 2015-09-23 21:59:44 UTC
But its making money!
They are making money here! Money, money, money!

Maybe not a lot, and it feels like a free to play store with subscription aded for good measure but its always better than nothing. Lol
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-09-23 22:30:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Markus Reese
Moac Tor wrote:

Hehe well spotted. I am all for character and ship customisation, I just think the way they implemented skins is not interesting at all. The elaborate explanation for how it works is terrible, they don't obey any of the fundamental principles in eve. ie the items are not destructible or tradable once injected, and they offer a relatively low degree of customisation.


Well, they were initially destructible. The very first ship skin attempt was applied during the manufacturing phase but didn't fly. Then they went to the one where it is assigned to the character as a nanoparticle license or something and people bought em. I have a nice share of skins. Note my jacket too.

In my case, it is twofold. First, I see it, and eve is a visual experience. It connects to me on my roleplay side. Second, the few dollars I kinda consider a tip to the company. Is pricing off? I dunno. I didn't mind the price though it would be nice if we can get packages.

I paid actual dollars to get this stuff. Compared AUR to plex to market and found the best way. I got my space barbie stuff, and have no regrets to it. It enhances my gameplay simply because of how my brain works with getting immersed into an experience. It is a visual I like more when seeing my avatar, seeing my ship, etc.

Why do people care what color their car is when the purpose of paint is to keep it from rusting? Why is every vehicle on the road not Tremclad orange? Why do people pay thousands on top of a base price just to have a fancy color?

Simple answer, we are animals. Billions of years of evolution from being just amino acids in a pool means we have parts of our body and minds that respond subconciously to stimulus. Ship skins appeal to that. It doesnt have to be logical, only that it does. So our subconcious grapples with our logical conciousness and as such, I have the collection of sanctuary skins for my SoE ships I infrequently use, and a skin for my Basalisk which I rarely fly. Simply because it tickles my subconcious more than the cost of getting them.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2015-09-23 22:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Right. And I really wonder how sompe people percieve it as a bad thing when CCP is making money. It's not like they are forcing anyone to buy this stuff. You really don't need SKINs for anything.

Those SKINs existing does not even rule out custom SKINs in the future. To the contrary, I believe it was stated in one of those Dev blogs, that the new graphics model and the SKIN system pave the way for custom SKINs. Only that having a SKIN editor ingame requires a bit more development than just a predefined set of textures and colors. And now that they have the new graphics model, dishing out a few premade SKINs is a good way to quickly make some money on the side, without hurting the game. And CCP making money is a good thing for Eve players (us).
Marsha Mallow
#76 - 2015-09-23 23:33:01 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Right. And I really wonder how sompe people percieve it as a bad thing when CCP is making money. It's not like they are forcing anyone to buy this stuff. You really don't need SKINs for anything.

Those SKINs existing does not even rule out custom SKINs in the future. To the contrary, I believe it was stated in one of those Dev blogs, that the new graphics model and the SKIN system pave the way for custom SKINs. Only that having a SKIN editor ingame requires a bit more development than just a predefined set of textures and colors. And now that they have the new graphics model, dishing out a few premade SKINs is a good way to quickly make some money on the side, without hurting the game. And CCP making money is a good thing for Eve players (us).

Well, we are all armchair economists, game designers and polymaths. No, really.

Or maybe we just like commentating and chatting about stuff. Discussion is good. Some useable bits might emerge, and CCP might use some. The 'EvE is dying' rhetoric is tricky to wade through but it's just verbal shorthand to make a point forcefully, and it gets people involved. Which is good sometimes, rattle some cages, gets people involved.

The only reason I'm not pursuing this one is because I'm hoping there's a larger agenda behind it. If nothing pops out of value in a reasonable timeframe, or there's a whiff of PTW I'd treat it as a knife in the back after being patient and respond in kind.

But actually commenting that something is retardedly overpriced and your mates might be gouged (even if you won't) isn't selfish, petty or entitled. Quite the reverse.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day

Amber Starview
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-09-24 00:42:44 UTC
A rare item that makes you look awesome/different is ofc going to come at a premium ,kinda like my dad who complains I buy 300 dollar shoes and his do the same thing but for a fraction of the cost .....yeah they shoes but they ain't shoes I would wear .

Yes this community is like my dad ,hates expense and hates change .
Ferrucio Surge
The Bag Cartel
#78 - 2015-09-24 04:04:26 UTC
I agree, the prices could be a bit lower. But not by much. Hopefully the SKINs concept will be improving over time, and I do intend to keep getting them. I have a few ideas for them, but the cost isn't a big issue. Just make more money. After all, they're suppossed to be luxury items.
Bosswoman
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2015-09-24 06:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bosswoman
Neuntausend wrote:
Right. And I really wonder how sompe people percieve it as a bad thing when CCP is making money. It's not like they are forcing anyone to buy this stuff. You really don't need SKINs for anything.

Those SKINs existing does not even rule out custom SKINs in the future. To the contrary, I believe it was stated in one of those Dev blogs, that the new graphics model and the SKIN system pave the way for custom SKINs. Only that having a SKIN editor ingame requires a bit more development than just a predefined set of textures and colors. And now that they have the new graphics model, dishing out a few premade SKINs is a good way to quickly make some money on the side, without hurting the game. And CCP making money is a good thing for Eve players (us).


My problem with this, and I feel like most people are failing to see this, is as follows: CCP is using money that we (as a community) give them to play, manage, and develop the game to make ship skins (and other cosmetic items) and then selling it back to us at an overpriced amount. Its not being sold to us with a small tax saying hey we need to make some money off this... its a flat out cash grab. I don't like having my money used to develop something then be told that if I like it I have to pay for it again .

Secondly If CCP is in a state of needing extra money due to whatever the reasons may be then they should be selling this for 2-3 dollars per skin for said ship hull. If this was the case I would fully support this. I love EVE and want to see it grow and prosper but the above business model is not healthy for the game and to be honest its really just a crappy was to treat your paying customers.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2015-09-24 13:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bosswoman wrote:
My problem with this, and I feel like most people are failing to see this, is as follows: CCP is using money that we (as a community) give them to play, manage, and develop the game to make ship skins (and other cosmetic items) and then selling it back to us at an overpriced amount. Its not being sold to us with a small tax saying hey we need to make some money off this... its a flat out cash grab. I don't like having my money used to develop something then be told that if I like it I have to pay for it again .
You don't have to buy them.

Every corporation in the world takes the money that you use to buy their products and services and uses it to create new products and services to sell to you, it's commonly known as being in business.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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