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CCP's bad business model (Ship Skins)

Author
Bosswoman
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-09-22 09:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bosswoman
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2015-09-22 09:58:01 UTC
i think they are a tad expensive yeah but hardly outrageously so.

hardly matters though , they are vanity items so...
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#3 - 2015-09-22 10:07:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
hardly matters though , they are vanity items so...

^^^

I also don't agree with the pricing, but it makes no difference in the end whether I have them or not.
Outlawd
Asset Seizure and Reclaimation
#4 - 2015-09-22 10:10:43 UTC
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)


There is no fine print anywhere that is saying, just because skins are there, do they have to be explicitly affordable to your financial scenario. I would imagine they are more intended for people who want to look somewhat different and are priced to make them more unique.

There is no way I would want to pay money for a skin if everyone and their mother has it. What's the point in that?

Nor is this a move to the f2p model either. If the game became flooded with items such as: "You can now use a stargate TWICE in one hour for x unit of this item for $4", then yeh, that would be f2p.



Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-22 10:19:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Civire
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?


(lets please keep this somewhat civil)


Can you please stop making whining threats! The only complains i have is that the game is half finish or half broken depend on what side you are one. Skins in the other hand do not matter its just cosmetic nobody gives a f*ck about that. I can thing of 2 million other worst marketing. This however is the best option, nobody is harm and nobody is pay to win.

This complain you have is about a price of a skin thats and thats not related. But the game is not required to pay for that skin. Its a extra option and its not needing. So stop the QQ and play the god damn game or leave it and stay at your facebook games.

And i can troll what ever i want because this is nonsense. The problem is you. And i stay with that. I`m not in defend mode for ccp because we know the f*ck some things up. But this..... just nonsense.
Bosswoman
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-09-22 10:23:36 UTC
Outlawd wrote:
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)


There is no fine print anywhere that is saying, just because skins are there, do they have to be explicitly affordable to your financial scenario. I would imagine they are more intended for people who want to look somewhat different and are priced to make them more unique.

There is no way I would want to pay money for a skin if everyone and their mother has it. What's the point in that?

Nor is this a move to the f2p model either. If the game became flooded with items such as: "You can now use a stargate TWICE in one hour for x unit of this item for $4", then yeh, that would be f2p.





You seem to be a bit confused. This was not about what I can or cant afford or about EVE being a f2p game. This is about high prices on multiple ships with the same hull( ie no extra art cost) being sold. Also Cheaply made Skins being sold for over 35$.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#7 - 2015-09-22 10:35:13 UTC
Outlawd wrote:

There is no fine print anywhere that is saying, just because skins are there, do they have to be explicitly affordable to your financial scenario. I would imagine they are more intended for people who want to look somewhat different and are priced to make them more unique.

There is no way I would want to pay money for a skin if everyone and their mother has it. What's the point in that?

Nor is this a move to the f2p model either. If the game became flooded with items such as: "You can now use a stargate TWICE in one hour for x unit of this item for $4", then yeh, that would be f2p.

I dont think skins are ment to make you look unique. Everyone can get the skins, if not with RL money, then with ingame money. Thats no big achievement. For me, skins are just a way to make your ships look better and for that the price is way too high. For example, i really like the new Maelstrom skin, but im not going to pay 8€ for it. I bought the GTA complete collection (all GTA games with all DLCs (before GTA5 came out)) for 11€ during a Steam sale and CCP wants me to pay 8€ for ONE texture? NOPE.

BTW, what you describe as F2P is P2W. Big difference.
Bosswoman
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-22 10:39:35 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?


(lets please keep this somewhat civil)


Can you please stop making whining threats! The only complains i have is that the game is half finish or half broken depend on what side you are one. Skins in the other hand do not matter its just cosmetic nobody gives a f*ck about that. I can thing of 2 million other worst marketing. This however is the best option, nobody is harm and nobody is pay to win.

This complain you have is about a price of a skin thats and thats not related. But the game is not required to pay for that skin. Its a extra option and its not needing. So stop the QQ and play the god damn game or leave it and stay at your facebook games.

And i can troll what ever i want because this is nonsense. The problem is you. And i stay with that. I`m not in defend mode for ccp because we know the f*ck some things up. But this..... just nonsense.


Take a second and re-look at what i'm trying to say. This is not a QQ thread whining about Skins being to much for me to afford ( I could buy them all and still be financially ok, if not of sould mind) This is a thread about CCP's bad business model. 8$ for a ship skin is greedy and I don't like where that may lead CCP and EVE online to.
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-09-22 10:42:56 UTC
Vanity items should frankly be more than they are, not less.
Outlawd
Asset Seizure and Reclaimation
#10 - 2015-09-22 10:51:28 UTC
Bosswoman wrote:


You seem to be a bit confused. This was not about what I can or cant afford or about EVE being a f2p game. This is about high prices on multiple ships with the same hull( ie no extra art cost) being sold. Also Cheaply made Skins being sold for over 35$.


No no, I understood perfectly. I counter claim that it is you, who does not understand and yes, it is entirely about affordability. To some people, £10 for a skin is nothing and it gets them the ability to have something somewhat unique. It also allows CCP some extra profits. Whether you like the system or not has little consequence in the overall scheme of things. It's the way it is.

If you don't want to pay that money, don't. There is no reason for you to be paying it. CCP clearly has a marketing campaign and pricing strategy that is better thought out than your assumptions of "cheap skins" not being applicable to "multiple ship types". Ranting here will not change things.


Algarion Getz wrote:

I dont think skins are ment to make you look unique. Everyone can get the skins, if not with RL money, then with ingame money. Thats no big achievement. For me, skins are just a way to make your ships look better and for that the price is way too high. For example, i really like the new Maelstrom skin, but im not going to pay 8€ for it. I bought the GTA complete collection (all GTA games with all DLCs (before GTA5 came out)) for 11€ during a Steam sale and CCP wants me to pay 8€ for ONE texture? NOPE.

BTW, what you describe as F2P is P2W. Big difference.


Of course they are! How many of them have you seen? I have better things than skins to buy with ISK.

As I said above, this is entirely about affordability. If you want your ship to look different, you pay your money and move on. They don't have to lower the cost just because you can't justify spending 8 euros on a skin. That's your financial dilemma, not theirs.

I described a f2p model. A p2w model would be to allow people to buy ships, or mods. Limiting people to systems (in a theoretical sense) does not make it p2w, it just limits your interaction with the game.

In conclusion, you both seem to be affected with the same malaise of not understanding financial ascendance and affordability.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-09-22 10:53:32 UTC
top tip: dont like the price, dont buy them, simples

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#12 - 2015-09-22 10:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Fubarticus
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.


With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)



OMW, not another one of these "rage against the establishment ops"
You already answered your own question, so this post is an obvious rant.

1. Free market principle does not mean everything is free. It means that a Business is free to charge whatever they believe their product or service is worth. The Market then determines through volume of sales ( rising, falling, or steady) whether the consumer of that product agrees with the pricing model (Intrinsic Value).
declining Volume = Reduce sales. Rising Sales = ... you get the point.

2. This post is not about CCP greed. It is about your personal view of the Ship Skins intrinsic value. They are a novelty item!! Would I pay the current market value for them? Heck no! Why? Because there are other in game things I place a higher value on. And its not because I think CCP is greedy.

3. If you purchase a cosmetic item in a F2P game... It's not free lol. You killed your own argument with that statement. Please stop being a victim and become an Eve community asset. Have a wonderful day!Big smile

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#13 - 2015-09-22 10:56:12 UTC
Bosswoman wrote:
Ship skins.... yeah I know shame on me for starting another thread on this Topic but I don't like the greedy way CCP is heading with the current business model in regards to ship skins.

So last time I checked EVE Online was not a "Free To Play Game" So why for the love of sweet baby Jebus are the prices for ship skins so high?

Using the base price of 900 AUR = 5.00$. You get 1$ = 180 AUR

That over 4.00$ for a Frigate and 8.50$ For a Battleship skin.

Worst part is that the Skin is only for one ship not even the ship hull. Lets look at the Typhoon, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Panther, they are all the same ship hull with no variations and yet we have to pay $8.50 for each? Come on CCP stop being greedy.

If CCP is in need of the extra capital they should drop the price to 2-3$ per ship hull per skin. If this was the case I think the vast majority of players would drop a few bucks on their favorite ship(hull) But as it stands I think CCP has its head in the clouds, I mean 36$ on a poorly done Super Cap Skin?

And before you start sir/ma'am trollsalot; yes I know art cost a lot of money but I can buy cosmetic Items on a free to play game cheaper then I can on EVE, a game that I pay to play ever month.

With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)


Don't want to pay for it? Don't buy it. Please close topic.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#14 - 2015-09-22 11:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Outlawd wrote:

Of course they are! How many of them have you seen? I have better things than skins to buy with ISK.

As I said above, this is entirely about affordability. If you want your ship to look different, you pay your money and move on. They don't have to lower the cost just because you can't justify spending 8 euros on a skin. That's your financial dilemma, not theirs.

I described a f2p model. A p2w model would be to allow people to buy ships, or mods. Limiting people to systems (in a theoretical sense) does not make it p2w, it just limits your interaction with the game.

In conclusion, you both seem to be affected with the same malaise of not understanding financial ascendance and affordability.

I can afford it, but i won't pay 8€ for a texture which i can make myself in Photoshop in 5min. For 8€ i can get a nice indie game or an AAA game during Steam sale!

The lower the price, the higher the chance people will buy it and in the end the seller makes more profit because a lot more people are buying stuff. Thats how microtransactions work.
Boom Laison
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-09-22 11:21:51 UTC
Rather remove possibility to convert PLEX to AUR. Instead of absorbing existing PLEXes it created more pressure on new PLEXes, so the price of the PLEX went up almost twice since skinns were introduced.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-22 11:28:45 UTC
True, the price for SKINs hardly seems reasonable at first glance: Most ship SKINs require basically no development time or any kind of work for that matter. Look at the Raata Sunset or Wyirkomi Skins for example: They are exactly the same textures and the same models we have on our ships anyway, just with a changed set of colours. And even the ones that have different textures can be made by a single half-decent 3d artist in just a few hours time. SKINs are as low-effort as microtransactions content gets.

Now, does that mean I hate SKINs or think they are overpriced? Quite the contrary. Apparently, people are buying them, despite them giving no advantage in terms of game mechanics, otherwise CCP would not be pushing out more and more. That's money for CCP. Money they probably need, if they want to keep the game going. They are struggling with a generation of players, that mostly rejects subscription models, while having a player base, that mostly rejects "Free to Play", DLC and Microtransactions. They are struggling with decreased subscriber numbers as well, and on top of that, the price for a subscription has not really changed in 12 Years.
Despite all of that, CCP as a company still has to grow. You don't have to like it - I know I don't - but that's how our free enterprise economy works. If a company doesn't grow, it dies.

CCP has been looking into ways to make money besides the subscription fees over the years, and I applaud them for trying to not completely break the game in the process. Most other companies would have given in and put special edition ships and "gold ammo" into the store by this point, if not gone "free to play" (which is a disgusting euphemism, really) alltogether or been bought by Electronic Arts (you can Imagine the game would have died not two years after that).

Now, if SKINs were just a few cents eache, I'd assume everyone would have the ones they want to fly at this point, and the whole thing would be dead already. I'd assume the prices as they are give CCP much more mileage out of the idea, and that's in the end really just good for us as players. If anything, I'd say give us more overly expensive low-effort vanity crap. As long as people are buying it, it helps keep the game alive.
Outlawd
Asset Seizure and Reclaimation
#17 - 2015-09-22 11:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Outlawd
Algarion Getz wrote:

I can afford it, but i won't pay 8€ for a texture which i can make myself in Photoshop in 5min. For 8€ i can get a nice indie game or an AAA game during Steam sale!

The lower the price, the higher the chance people will buy it and in the end the seller makes more profit because a lot more people are buying stuff. Thats how microtransactions work.


Why do you not understand that, that, is not the business model they have adopted?!

If you are resolute enough to not be subjugate to your emotional need, then good for you. However, if you could afford it, you wouldn't be comparing it to other things for the same money. Either way, I don't care, to be frank.

Please, just stop replying without thinking. Have a sit down, maybe a coffee and actually think about it. Then, I will reply to you in a more civil manner.
Irridan
Zima Corp
Legion of xXDEATHXx
#18 - 2015-09-22 11:37:41 UTC
Bosswoman wrote:

bla bla bla
With that whats your thoughts?

(lets please keep this somewhat civil)

You are obviously unfair.
EVE not F2P? Come on. Really Karl?

How much is PLEX nowadays? 19.99$ = 1kkk.
How much time is needed to farm 1kkk?
How many people simply pay with PLEX?

10 years ago, when there were no PLEX at all eve was P2P.

But today - not.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-09-22 11:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Irridan wrote:
You are obviously unfair.
EVE not F2P? Come on. Really Karl?

How much is PLEX nowadays? 19.99$ = 1kkk.
How much time is needed to farm 1kkk?
How many people simply pay with PLEX?

10 years ago, when there were no PLEX at all eve was P2P.

But today - not.



The Plex Price and ISK faucets don't make Eve any more F2P today than it was way back when. Yes, it seems easy to get the billion together each month to PLEX your account for you. But think further: The sole fact that you can even buy the PLEX at all, means, that for each player like you, who finds it easy to farm ISK, there is at least one who doesn't. So much so even, that not only does he not PLEX his account, but he pays his subscription fee twice to keep going. And considering that there are who knows how many PLEX out there not being used but hoarded for speculation, there are probably a lot more people who don't have the ISK to spare than people who do. One PLEX activated for a month of game time is always at least one subscription fee paid by a player. That holds true no matter how much a PLEX is worth on the market, be it 150M or 1B. It was true in 2008, when PLEX was not yet even a thing and people traded gametime codes and it's just as true now.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#20 - 2015-09-22 12:24:25 UTC
Non essential luxury items command a luxury price, who'da thunk it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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