EVE General Discussion

I wish you luck, but this is never going to happen. I have seen that threat against the New Order far too many times by many well intentioned rebels, and it never amounts to anything. These rebels quickly realize that most highsec residents are self-interested carebears who value the almighty ISK above all else and abhor any risk whatever. It is not a matter of organization, or leadership, it is just that (in general) the character of the average carebear is so low, they are not willing to lift a finger for their fellow player, newbie or otherwise, unless they are getting theirs. And fighting wardeccers (or gankers) doesn't really pay.

But this aside, Eve is a game about conflict and struggle and corporations are the basic unit of this conflict. By forming one you are signalling that you a ready to compete for your place in New Eden. You get benefits and those benefits come with the responsibility that you will defend your corporation. If you don't want that responsibility, then don't form a player corp - you can still form social groups without the trappings of a player corp and then still benefit from wardec immunity.

Honestly, I do think more social tools should be available for small groups of players who just want to mess around with friends, or are just starting out and don't want all the risk (or the rewards) of a player corp. Something like the 'Societies' proposal or the 'Social Corp' idea. It's clear you want a corporation more for the social aspects and to help new players which is admirable, rather than the benefits of the corporation structure and the game is unable to accommodate you.

But until then, you are going to have to assume the risks if you want the benefits of a player corp, or come up with some run-around, like using a chat channel, to form your social group.

Some of you people don't really understand something here.

After 8 years of gameplay, I have seen and done a lot of things. Granted I haven't been playing for that amount of time solidly. Personal life gets in the way, such as failing computers, or simple rage quit. But I've experienced a few things.

The first corp I ran actually did end up going to null. However we didn't have JF pilots or ppl capable of shuttling their loots up to high sec. So things quickly turned south. I was about 6 months old at the time, and had been running a corp for about 4 of those months. That corp fell apart because, things aren't a kosher in null as you like to pretend they are.

Then I ran several empire based corps, all of which failed because of one main reason. it's difficult to recruit anywhere, any which way in this game without griefers auto-targetting you as a corp. As soon as you put in recruitmentchat "looking for players to join a missioning corp", the wardecs insta. After 2 or 3 war decs, your guys are exhausted. No one can fight anymore. It's not like I haven't tried to fight back. You expect the new players to use all these windows, chats, intels, forums, all this externally related stuff to keep alive. It just doesn't work. They are still learning how to put a module on their ship, because the NPE experience is severely lacking in this game.

Then after that, I thought, well OK. Maybe I will join a nullsec corp like Goons or Test. So I got in the recruit channel and ended up talking to a "recruiter" that was actually a member of goons. He convinced me to transfer him my stuff so he could transport it down to their space and then I could be in the alliance. I really didn't like the idea but I thought hey, if this is how they get their members, then I'll give it a go.

And guess what happened there. SCAMMED. Yeah I quit the game for 2 years over that. So half you f*cking nullsec guys are scammers anyway. it's been my experience that the PVP community lies, cheats, steals, exploits mechanics, does every single thing however the hell they possibly can to get whatever they can get out of you. As an inherantly honest person, I could not let myself or other new players joining the game experience that.

So then I came back and sat in the newb corp for a long time. I started running incursions. The taxes were killing me, so I made a 1 man corp and sat in it for the longest time. But I started getting lonely. Being burnt by you nullsec players, and burnt from people war deccing, burnt from basically every aspect of this game except running incursions and missions, I wanted a community. So I started recruiting for my corp. And I got a war dec. And a nother war dec. And ANOTHER war dec. It's constant. This is the newest form of griefing. If it's true that CCP doesn't really give a sh*t about their new players, or that they don't want to make it easy on anyone entering the game, or on corps that want to train new players and build them up and get them earning some isk, or they don't give a sh*t about their PVE players one bit, then they might as well kiss EVE goodbye. I give this game 2 or 3 more years, max.

And that's the god-given truth.

If you people don't start agreeing on this, it's not me that's going to hurt from it. It's EVE itself. You can have your scams, your exploits, your general d0uchebaggery, this game is going to die a horrible death. Is that really what you want?

I'm telling you this is going to happen. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. This game is not friendly to new players. TOO MANY have quit over the bullox stuff that goes on here. It's time for a change. Maybe CCP should change their motto. Stop focusing so much on PVP. Make high sec actually safe for once. Give the non-pvp'ers a chance.

Things are fine in null if you want to take a group there to live.

Seems that not preparing adequately for life in null is not the problem of wardeccers. As a Corp CEO, isn't it your responsibility, especially if you are trying to train new players, to take care of all the details needed to provide the environment you are hoping for?

This seems like more of the situation here, not so much of not understanding what you are saying, but just having a different view of what is important.

I'm clearly in the camp of people that believe that we all should take personal responsibility for the things we want to do rather than blaming barriers on poor mechanics or other people.

If you want something, figure out how to achieve it and when a problem occurs, figure it out rather than give up by blaming external issues.

But, that's clearly not the only view of people and totally understandable that other people see things differently. I'm just not very sympathetic to the view that others should solve our problems. That's actually the aspect of Eve that I personally find most enjoyable and I hope that never changes.

Of course they didn't think that. People like that believe that they should be able to play the game wrong without any consequences of any kind. Presumably because they think they're special.

The same tools, yes, but not the same objectives. Like if we both had a small knife and I had to cut carrots while you had to chop down an oak tree. You're happy because the tools are unbalanced in your favour and you don't want change because you are risk averse and want to protect your easy gameplay.

Oh it's not? Ok. Just wait till something else like star citizen comes out.

I'm raising the arguments here because of what I have seen. Not because of what the statistics say. Sure there are many new players who join the game. Many of them are alts of people who have anywhere between 1 - 8 accounts.

I say there's a decline in numbers, because I HAVE SEEN IT. Just recetly, 8 more newbro's to the game, gone. Why? War dec mechanics. Could I have done more as a CEO? I'm not sureI could have. You can only push people so much to do what you want. "Use this overview. Use that warp gate. Fit your ship this way. Listen to the FC". But new players are just that. NEW. And yes, many of them I trained went on to PVP and join nullsec alliances. Even out of the coveted "join null" argument, they STILL quit the game.

You probably want to update your lense presciption then.
There is one “always:” don't lie to newbies about how the skill system works.
There is one “never:” you will never get good without experience.

I take it you disagree with these statements, then?


No, I expect you to teach them. It works, at least if you're ever so slightly knowledgeable and pedagogical and they're not complete numpties. If it can be done in a live environment with real opposition, that much better. The beauty of it is that it's easily sectioned off in discrete pieces, and a fair amount of it doesn't even require any game knowledge.

None of that is even remotely true. Same as with most of the details in your sob story.

…also, if you're going to point to a game that is supposed to kill EVE, pick one that's actually coming out and has a chance of surviving more than a month. As a bonus, pick one in the same genre.

Never said it was.

However, CONCORD clearly exists in hisec for the purpose of curbing acts of violence between players. If you want to gank that miner or blob an industrial on a gate, so be it. But you lose all ships involved*. You have to weight the cost and generally speaking it isn't worth it for most people to gank others for lawls. With wardeccing, hisec just becomes a poor man's nullsec for those involved. Circumventing that buffer between those who enjoy the PvE content and those who want to PvP is completely one-sided and crap game design. Obviously those fit for PVE cannot properly defend themselves against the PvP fit player (who may very well refit to specifically counter the ship type of their upcoming victim) . That PvP player can attack with impunity and if things somehow don't go his or her way they can just leave because the PvE person has no reason to fit a warp jammer (or ancillary booster/repairer, buffer armor tank or be in a group capable of countering small gang PvP). Not to mention this pay-to-win alt with links off grid bull****. Sorry, but people picking on PvE fit players conducting PvE operations are the biggest carebears in EVE.

If you want to dismiss the "purpose of hisec" then your argument has to be the complete dismantling of hisec all together. Otherwise, it's nonsense to even try and argue against me.

*Although that isn't the case anymore as CCP, unable to police bumpers, folds and tries to play it off as legal to save face. It clearly isn't legal seeing as the bumpers can't be considered gankers seeing as they aren't arousing a CONCORD response. Ergo, they aren't technically part of the gank and therefore are just griefers.



Tell that to the guys spamming duel requests. I mean, it's not about agreed aggression, right? So why bother with duel requests? Just attack me already... oh, right. Don't pretend like wardecs are any more of a war than a player duel. War implies a want for control of people, resources, territory, power, etc. War is not blowing up complete strangers for no other reason than that you can. That's just manslaughter or genocide. The Rwandan Genocide of 1994 was not a war. It was just one side with guns and machete killing people who weren't in a strong position to fight back. Aggression does not = war.

Furthermore, wars can be won. There is no winning a wardec. There is nothing set up where a corp can be wardecced and then go out and win the war, ending it against the will of the aggressor corp. The opposing side doesn't even have to have territory, infrastructure or anything worthwhile to lose. It continues until the aggressor get's bored and stops paying CONCORD. It's just a paid pass to shoot people. Please, don't insinuate that these trifling kill permits are "wars". The wars are all in nullsec for resources, territory, money, etc.

It is in hisec where CONCORD is supposed to police capsuleer aggression. By your logic there should be no CONCORD. You're feigning ignorance of CONCORD's very purpose here. As I mentioned before, any argument on your part that does not call for a complete end to hisec (i.e. CONCORD involvement) is nonsense. Do not pretend like you are unaware of what seperates hisec from low/null. Wardecs allow individuals to circumvent the very purpose of hisec, which is to provide a place of relative safety. It's supposed to be high security...

The second case is a matter of mutual agreed warfare. I'm really just throwing you people a bone. It's doubtful that many corps would opt for this, but I left it open as an option. Essentially, it's just a duel on a corporate scale.



If we had highly advanced alien overlords who could stop aggressors and prevent conflicts after a single shot is fired, our planet Earth would be a different story. You're comparing the real world to a place where Big Brother is literally watching every capsuleer in a solar system and can pounce with overwhelming force within moments. Yes, permission is required. You need CONCORD's permission. You're shooting yourself in the foot here. It is utterly ridiculous to have the very organization that is supposed to protect you allowing sociopath murderers to run rampant for a tidy sum. As if New Eden is a game reserve and they are selling passes to hunt humans as game. That is blatant corruption and there is no way this would be allowed by the Jove (or the Empires) who gave them this tech to prevent Capsuleers from running amok and doing the exact thing wardecs allow.



They aren't soldiers. It's not a war. As has already been covered. By your logic I can burst into you house and start stabbing everyone to death and just say I'm at war with you so it's not murder. I'm just a soldier fighting in a war against you, your spouse, your children and your dog. See, I have the permit from the city clerk which s says we are at war. Didn't you get the letter in the mail?

All ships larger than frigates have crews. So yes, you are murdering many people when you destroy a non-frigate class ship. Your crew is complicit in your crimes and get what's coming to them when your ship explodes. The victim's crew is not. It is an execution to web/scram down a defenseless mining crew and kill them in cold blood.

soon to be replaced with corp duelling (TM) to coincide with a major PvE expansion based around these new space castles.

special research has shown that casual space guild players are the least hurtful to CCP developers and most likely to have IRL friends and nice clean keyboards.