EVE General Discussion

Firstly, I'm pretty sure you are wrong with regards to the firepower being too much for high sec groups to take on since without the DD & AOE weapons they won't actually be as much of a threat. Yes there will be a high paper DPS number on them but it won't apply it without support. Highsec groups are also not as week and feeble as you would like to portray, and have plenty of draw on low & null groups also.

Secondly you are complaining about structures actually promoting the growth of larger groups in highsec. Seriously?

Just how easy do you want these structures to be to kill given that they CAN NOT avoid a war dec and are a 5 BILLION isk payout on just fittings and base materials drop (averaged) based on what CCP have said so far about them.
And that's assuming no industry jobs are running of any sort.

Because the vast bulk of them know that almost no-one in highsec stores any valuable assets in said POS, and as soon as you wardec most POS holders they simply take the POS away.
Highsec entities don't form large groups for the most part because there is no point, you are actually punished in highsec for getting big by the wardec corps who decide you are a shiny bunch of targets to go after.

At this point with no numbers & testing you are simply projecting your anti highsec agenda into this, and demanding that highsec not get the same toys to play with. XL Citadels where there are super fleets get DD's and AOE weapons to defend them, something Highsec Citadels already don't get, so the two defence cases are going to be utterly different.

Bumping of the type in question was considered harassment which is why CCP encouraged people to file petitions. The issue isn't bumping in and of itself, but you already know this choosing instead to call the apple an orange pretending all fruit are the same thing. Legal bumping was a combat tactic players use to actually engage an opponent in situations risking their own assets. Not this carebear nonsense CODE is doing where they get to effectively warp jam another player without any repercussions. As stated in the text you quoted, the bumper is not eliciting a CONCORD response; therefore, they are not a part of the ganking. Based on the games mechanics, they are just some player harassing other players for no other reason than to cause them grief. It was never OK to waste another player's time for your own amusement. They now say it's OK because they know they can't stop it without massive overhauls to how sec status work. Because it can't be handled thru flagged or sec status loss. Making collision a flaggable offenses would be a GM nightmare scenario.

When you discuss these things with Baltec, Black Pedro and people like them you find that they always focus on the extremes, Baltec1 ignores the fact that certain weapons systems will not be available for hisec and acts as if they are. Black Pedro made a great thing about people setting these up in C1 and C2 WH's and while I am sure that some people could do this, the question is why bother when a Large would do the job perfectly well and will be easier to build.

Not everyone has the vast resources of the Goons, especially not people in hisec, there are of course some seriously rich manufacturers and traders in hisec but ISK is what they use to keep their empires running, they are not going to sink it into an XL Citadel unless it gave them the ability to create their own market Hub. Now that is what CCP should be pushing, giving these players an incentive to do it and reducing the EHP is not going to help in that.

The entitled feeling that they have the right to be able to kill easily anything in hisec gets on my nerves, there is nothing wrong in making some things difficult, since I effectively started playing I had years and years of looking at IHUB's and stuff that were a struggle to take down with our numbers and resources, but it was the game and something to get better at, something to work at, but they feel that they have the right to be able to kill anything so they whine like mad at anything that is a challenge. Go look at the gankers comments on the Skiff for example, they want its yield dropped, when people like me mine with a full tank and the base yield.

The honest truth is that CCP needs to make the XL Citadels to be a major challenge for what operates and does most of the killing in hisec and that is really the Imperium as a whole with their CODE allies, that is the apex predator in hisec.

Pipe hunting war dec alliances don't have the will to go after POS's, I had a small in Niarja they refused to shoot, thats because they have more fun shooting people running through the pipes, not something that is hard. So in reality our choice on what we can do is limited to their choice on not going after something difficult. What a bunch of losers and the sad thing is taht CCP will pander to them the poor loves...

I have

1. No intention to put up an XL Citadel myself
2. Pushing for it to have a tank because it will change hisec where wars will mean something



I am not pushing for:

1. A level of EHP so my corp or alliance can kill one with little effort
2. That there are less use and defences in hisec because I hate people who are in hisec and want them to die under my guns

Removed off topic and inflammatory comments, please do not resort to personal attacks - ISD Atomic Dove

At what point did I mention their doomsday and AOE weapons? I am only talking about the citadel launchers it will be sporting and the enormous tank it will have. XL Citadels are a large alliance asset built with taking out supercapital fleets in mind, they are not compatible with the restrictions high sec has in place. Besides, their entire selling point is the ability to dock supers in them.

You made a great fuss about their weapons systems, in any case they are not he same as your excellent Phoenix fit, and its immaterial whether they are designed to take on Supers and Supers can dock in them, if someone wants to put one in hisec then good luck to them. Who decides they are large alliance assets, the Goons not CCP, if someone has the ISK and a big enough alliance why not. Oh I know, you don't like the idea that some carebear pubbie can put one up and you will have a slight challenge to take it down, cry more please...

The simple fact is that the threat for any major structure in hisec is the Imperium, you take such a major interest in the area that you won't be able to leave it alone and that is why it has to be the same apart from AOE as null sec which can be the only restriction. If someone wants to put a doomsday in it why not, its a single ship targeted weapon after all.

You just do not like it that carebear pubbies could put one up, get over it.

Finally it may be that the Drifters will destroy hisec as we know it, so looking to the future why not on that basis too.

So what if no one else can currently drop 3 BS fleets on it, you can and you do a lot of stuff in hisec, in any case hisec will evolve because they have to and its not that difficult to take down, it just takes effort and a certain number which could be cobbled together.

In terms of the doomsday, last I looked Orcas, Freighters and Jump Freighters were classed as Capitals and I work on the basis that Carriers and Dreads will be allowed in hisec.

EDIT: And a major thing bugs me about all this, the largest merc alliance in hisec has no interest in taking down structures, because they don't want to does that mean hisec people cannot have them, seems a bit lame, no one has the will to take them down so you cannot have them, so much for a sandbox...

EDIT: STRUCTURES GIVE MEANING TO WAR DECS IF CCP HAS THE VISION TO ONLY ALLOW WAR DECS AGAINST ENTITIES THAT HAVE A STRUCTURE IN HISEC SPACE, THIS WILL REDUCE THE DESTRUCTIVE BLANKET WAR DECS MAKING HISEC ALLIANCE LIMITED TO SMALL GROUPS ONLY AND WHERE TRAINING CORPS GET DEC'D BY ELITE PVP'RS LIKE THE OP.

Why are you so concerned about this? If you think dreadnoughts will be allowed in highsec, then there is your counter to the HP wall. There is no need for a battleship fleet. Groups of the typical highsec size can now contest them and everyone is happy.

If capitals are not allowed in highsec then CCP will add another vulnerability for XL citadels to "mitigate my concerns" as we agreed, or perhaps not release them there at all. In all cases, 100-200 person battleship fleets won't be needed to grind down XL citadels. Groups of the sizes found in lower class wormholes and highsec will be able to contest them.

You seem fixated on these structures in a thread that is nominally about wardecs. Perhaps the ISDs should try to get this back on topic.

200bs with minimal defenders, sure. A citadel shouldn't be something you can plonk in space and rely on it's natural tank to deter players from even attempting to go after it. Effectively, if 99% of highsec alliances would be put off of attacking it because of it's sheer size, it shouldn't be put in.

Doesn't look like this is what the argument is. Seems to me that your problem is quite the opposite, that some one man industry corp won't be able to put an XL citadel and be safe from most attackers with minimal effort.