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Crime & Punishment

 
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Internet honor and other such non-sense

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Avi Shekelstien
Doomheim
#61 - 2015-09-22 22:11:53 UTC
Shoot them all and let the saviour sort them out.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-09-23 00:14:07 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:

I am a shitehawk


Dude, we know.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#63 - 2015-09-23 00:30:19 UTC
Whenever you dont honor ransoms you are beeing a douche to all fellow priates in eve, the target will never pay up again. Dont be a douche - honour ransoms.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#64 - 2015-09-23 03:29:49 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:
So the reason you warp away is your E-Honor not because you do it to make money. Now of course not honouring your ransom will give you a reputation so the same person isn't going to pay twice, but Eve is massive, the likelihood of catching the same person for ransom again is highly unlikely, catching someone who has heard about your reputation for not honouring ransoms is even less likely.



On a peer to peer basis yeah your right.


But for Mercenaries. Honoring ransom's and surrender's helps build relations, not only opening new opportunities but word will spread.


That may be true.

However I've never really seen any legit 'mercenaries' in Eve that fit the definition most people imagine. 90% of the 'mercenary' work in Eve is tradehub camping or some other form of camping like camping an enemy chokepoint. The other 10% is helping bash/defend poses/assets of groups that are incredibly weak to start with. Almost no mercs will take on a legit PvP corp for you even if the mercs have far more numbers/resources.


Oh god. I see this shitehawk made a new nest.

A "mercenary" is someone that you hire to fight a battle that you either can't or won't. Sitting on trade hubs killing people who are too daft to use an alt during a dec is STILL a mercenary. You should write a dictionary, since you seem intent on defining things for others, peaches.


It was in the context that 'honoring ransoms helps build relations'. What ransoms are people like Marmite honoring that builds their reputation for people to hire them? None. People hire them simply because they camp tradehubs well. They built their reputation on honoring contracts (if you pay them they won't run with the money, they'll wardec whoever you ask and sit outside tradehubs like they usually do). However since groups like Marmite don't actually do much (if any) actual fighting, there are no real chances to ransom anyone.
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#65 - 2015-09-23 06:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Purple
Murder him after the ransom then recruit him and do it again.
Lost count of mission runners I have done this with.

Snuggles.

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2015-09-23 12:16:55 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
]

It was in the context that 'honoring ransoms helps build relations'. What ransoms are people like Marmite honoring that builds their reputation for people to hire them? None. People hire them simply because they camp tradehubs well. They built their reputation on honoring contracts (if you pay them they won't run with the money, they'll wardec whoever you ask and sit outside tradehubs like they usually do). However since groups like Marmite don't actually do much (if any) actual fighting, there are no real chances to ransom anyone.


Obviously the one that the OP conducted? Since Marlin is currently a member of marmite. Caught a juicy target off gate, offered a ransom to let em go, got paid.

Now, this is where it gets complicated. Pay close attention.

If the NEXT PERSON gets caught, and they already know OP honored the ransom before, they have a higher likelyhood of risking to pay it, because OP has demonstrated they can be trusted.

Do you see?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#67 - 2015-09-23 13:03:54 UTC
Also if you tend to lurk in a specific constellation for an extended period of time you are going to cross paths with other locals periodically.
Many folks get set into their ways, put down roots, or just hang out in an area because it offers them something that they really want/need. As such you're gonna get quite a few pilots crossing your path who are not gonna leave the area unless given a solid reason to do so. This does kind of create an environment where you encounter repeat customers from time to time... the rep you've built with them directly affects your chances of getting paid for being dastardly, rather than having to suffer the tender mercies of the loot fairy.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#68 - 2015-09-23 13:39:44 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
If I'm in losec or catch someone stupid in a flagging game in hisec, I'll try to ransom them. I most likely have no particular grievance with them and I'll just as gladly take ISK over a kill.

But if I've bothered wardeccing someone (or someone has bothered to wardec me), I'm not interested in their ISK, I'm only interested in seeing their stuff violenced. I won't offer or accept any ransom offers from war targets. Surrender offers, yes, depending on the circumstances, but usually only after some stuff has been violenced.


That is entirely my point. Wars are rarely coincidental. If someone in my alliance has pushed the button on somebody that means those people need to suffer as much loss as possible for some rEason (or a specific loss if structure are involved).

If it's a war of vendetta or a holy war then I owe it to the alliance mate that declared the war to inflict as much damage as possible, if it's a contract I owe it to the client to do the same. To let a caught target go for a bribe would be unprofessional as a mercenary and disrespectful as an alliance member. Unless intentionally letting a war target get away enables some grander scheme it's totally unacceptable.

Outside of wars people can do what the hell they will.

Although you have to kill all members of the Caldari militia, maximum screws are to be applied to their nuts at every opportunity.
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#69 - 2015-09-23 17:16:23 UTC
Sometimes ransoming the guy leads to him calling back up and leads to an out numbered situation,. This is why we always nuke and loot, he still pays the ransom, but I'm getting that kill either way. All my ransoms fund more wars, if your flying a freighter during a war, your stupid and should die in a fire, running missions in a shiny ship die in a fire... All ends the same way.

Shouldn't cry at the end of the day when this game is built on risk, mistrust and violence, just rejoice in the experience.

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
Marlin Spikes
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2015-09-23 19:15:26 UTC
I don't speak for any alliance or merc group, but personally, if I'm at war, my job is to harass, gank, stalk, disrupt, ransom, extort, torment, grief, etc. Anything that makes the war-targets miserable is fair game. PVP is just one aspect of war. Mental anguish, hopelessness, and tears are all a part of a wardec.

If I removed 2B from a War target's wallet, would the client be happy? I think they would. Whether that 2B was in ships or isk, the result is the same.

Bombers Rule!!!
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#71 - 2015-09-23 20:07:54 UTC
Oh it if is a war target, all bets are off. I would do the maximum amount of hurt I could possibly do to the best of my ability to completely ruin their day. A neutral that you catch (in low, null or WH) is a different story altogether.
Moon Moon Burdy
New Eden Tech Support
#72 - 2015-09-23 20:55:46 UTC
I'm confused. Why are you offering ransoms for wartargets?

I think a "contact our diplomat for surrender terms" would be more appropriate, is it not?

Things that went boom

Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!

Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#73 - 2015-09-23 21:22:27 UTC
Moon Moon Burdy wrote:
I'm confused. Why are you offering ransoms for wartargets?

I think a "contact our diplomat for surrender terms" would be more appropriate, is it not?

I think why is besides the point here, I agree with you mind ( I wouldn't solicit a ransom from a war target either)

But once one has been agreed upon (regardless of being a war target or not) it should be honoured.
Same for 1v1s , if it's agreed upon , you honour it.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Moon Moon Burdy
New Eden Tech Support
#74 - 2015-09-23 22:30:24 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:

I think why is besides the point here, I agree with you mind ( I wouldn't solicit a ransom from a war target either)

But once one has been agreed upon (regardless of being a war target or not) it should be honoured.
Same for 1v1s , if it's agreed upon , you honour it.



Right. That's a matter of integrity, which is of paramount importance.

In considering the question I was putting myself in the position of the ransom offerer and wondered what circumstance would put me in this place, that being offering a wartarget a ransom.

I would like to offer wartargets some antimatter cuddles, not ransoms. But once a deal is made, a deal is a deal. So let it be written, so let it be done.

To the bored mission runners whom I bring content for: I will honor ransom requests, if the price is right, but you will need to get my attention as I'll likely be distracted by the lovely way the antimatter sparks as you enter structure. It's dazzling.

Things that went boom

Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!

Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.
Faylee Freir
Abusing Game Mechanics
#75 - 2015-09-23 23:05:28 UTC
Nah, this is all wrong... Eve is all about choices, and I happen to be a well-qualified instructor in the field of poor judgement and coping with immense loss. These are all very important things in Eve and I must keep the circle of life going in order to uphold the sanctity of HTFU. We're playing a really bad internet spaceship game that is well known for its deceit, destruction, and lag-infested battles. It should be no surprise when someone takes advantage of the way EVE can be played. I don't think any less of those that have a "code" or some sort of e-honor, but eve is all about trust and how it's abused. Don't shove your e-bushido on me and say I'm the reason no one pays ransoms, as there are so many factors that go into if a ransom should be paid and who is holding all the power.

When I have a 12b jump freighter bumped and I start dunking, I hold all the power. If I can give him what he thinks is a way out for a measly 1b, you bet your ass he will want to start discussing ransoms.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!" - King Leonidas (300)

HTFU
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#76 - 2015-09-25 10:54:21 UTC
Every ransom is just a test. If they pay they try to bribe an official law officer and how would that look if I then let him go? No sir, he has to die.

Evil RatKid
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#77 - 2015-09-25 11:17:50 UTC
And the isk is confiscated as evidence.
Syeed Ameer Ali
Drunken Beaver Mining
#78 - 2015-09-25 13:10:09 UTC
Attempt to convince him to eject and come back in a rookie ship to give you a trophy kill so you can pad your killboard. While he is off grid have a friend steal the freighter. When he gets back, kill and pod him, then make fun of him in local.

The notion that honoring ransoms makes more people willing to pay them is fallacious.

everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
Aldeskwatso
Primus Societas
Crimson Interstellar Alliance
#79 - 2015-09-25 13:16:45 UTC
It would depend on the person, his corp/alliance, the reason or purpose for the war and how it's been going so far. But overall I'm inclined to honor an agreement if terms and conditions have been met. To not do so is savagery and not very gentlemanlike.

The biggest obstacle you'll encounter doing anything is yourself.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2015-09-25 20:27:54 UTC
You guys sicken me

HTFU

Dude if you get an orca in structure and ransom him for 250mill then pop him. GET POD then laugh

HE WONT TELL ANYONE. IF HE DOES IT WONT IMPACT ANY FUTURE RANSOMS


We are deeling with idiot carebears guys. The "dont kill all thw fish so they can grow next season" arguement is Weak cuz there are thousands and thousands of idiot carebears.

I literally have quotes in my bios of my toons like "omg you blew me up after you promised to stop" and "dude we had a deal why you kill me?!"

And... they... still... pay...


I hope you guys are just lying to save face.


WTF IS PSYCHOTIC MONK WHEN YOU NEED HIM.???? ALWAYS DISHONOR RANSOM FOR MAX ISK PODKILLS AND TEARS