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Crime & Punishment

 
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Questions about Specifics on 'On Station' and 'aggressive action'
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Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#1 - 2015-09-19 03:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyclo Hexanol
I want to start by saying I have read the rules of sisi and know engaging on gates and stations is forbidden.

I want to clarify some things though that could use a bit of clarification.

First off what constitutes 'on station'?
I heard people saying that 'on station' is 230km from station and that the capital rotation is more than 230km from station. When I undock, however, the beacon is 250km off station. Is the capital rotation beacon that is 250km off station considered to be 'on station'? Can I engage people there?

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.


Thank You!
Smile

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Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2015-09-19 04:04:32 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
I want to start by saying I have read the rules of sisi and know engaging on gates and stations if forbidden.

I want to clarify some things though that could use a bit of clarification.

First off what constitutes 'on station'?
I heard people saying that 'on station' is 230km from station and that the capital rotation is more than 230km from station. When I undock, however, the beacon is 250km off station. Is the capital rotation beacon that is 250km off station considered to be 'on station'? Can I engage people there?

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.


Thank You!
Smile


'On station' simply means you're in dock radius of the station (<2000m). Now this varies greatly for different station models. Some stations have a very small dock radius. While others have massive ones. For example the station I live in (an Ishukone station model) has a huge dock radius and 2 people can be 100km from each other and still be 'on station'. Many places that look like they are far from station are in fact still within the dock radius.

On the other hand many Minmatar stations have very small dock radius and as soon as you undock, within a few seconds you will be out of docking range of the station. These are referred to as 'kickout' stations.

Now I'm not sure what you mean by 'capital rotation beacon' and I can't think of anything that would resemble a beacon that would be 250km away from a station. As for being able to engage people on station. In lowsec sentry guns will shoot you if you commit a crime (shooting a non pirate/suspect/war target) on station if you're within 150km of the station. However if you're further than 150km from the station (and the sentry guns) then they will not engage if you commit a crime.

Bumping does not constitute aggression and you will not receive any timers for bumping someone. There are also no rules against bumping people so whoever threatened to get you banned is clueless or trolling you. Aggression happens when you use an offensive module against another ship (weapons, drones, ewar, points etc). Additionally engaging bastion mode on a Marauder will give you an aggression timer. These timers prevent you from docking or jumping through gates for 60 seconds. After you have stopped aggressing someone you must wait these 60 seconds before being able to dock or jump gate.
Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3 - 2015-09-19 04:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyclo Hexanol
OMG I was browsing this forum and the test server forum and accidentally posted in C&P.
-.-

Edit: Cant delete this post so if I could get a delete or a move.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#4 - 2015-09-19 11:55:00 UTC
SiSi's rules are easy to follow.

Fight at beacons.
Dont hoard modules.
No shenanigans on the undocks.


The asshatery you do on TQ should stay on TQ. SiSi is for testing. You will lose access if you do not follow the rules.

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-19 13:33:55 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
OMG I was browsing this forum and the test server forum and accidentally posted in C&P.
-.-

Edit: Cant delete this post so if I could get a delete or a move.


Meh. Your are better off asking here. Much more likely to get advice from someone who actually shoots things.

I didnt know that bastion mode gave you a weapons timer...

ECM burst modules do that too, fysa.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-09-19 13:38:39 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.

Thank You!
Smile


This has been a "point of discussion" for some time now. The last time CCP staff commented on it, they determined that bumping is NOT harassment in MOST cases. If they people you are bumping make an attempt to leave your area of influence and you follow them around, they could submit a ticket. As they state in the posts about it, its determined on a case by case basis, and I THINK they said you could do it as long as there is profit in it for you. However, it wont get you an insta-ban.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#7 - 2015-09-19 18:28:57 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.

Thank You!
Smile


This has been a "point of discussion" for some time now. The last time CCP staff commented on it, they determined that bumping is NOT harassment in MOST cases. If they people you are bumping make an attempt to leave your area of influence and you follow them around, they could submit a ticket. As they state in the posts about it, its determined on a case by case basis, and I THINK they said you could do it as long as there is profit in it for you. However, it wont get you an insta-ban.



That is interesting. I thought that the whole there needed to be a profit in it for you was what they said about bumping on tranquility. Nothing really seems to constitute a worthwhile 'profit' on sisi because everything costs 100 isk.

Does their definition of 'profit' extend to personal enjoyment? For instance if I want to get my jollies from using a macherial to bump helpless little capitals on the undock so they cant warp to CAs would that be an ok action?

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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-09-19 19:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Leto Thule wrote:
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.

Thank You!
Smile


This has been a "point of discussion" for some time now. The last time CCP staff commented on it, they determined that bumping is NOT harassment in MOST cases. If they people you are bumping make an attempt to leave your area of influence and you follow them around, they could submit a ticket. As they state in the posts about it, its determined on a case by case basis, and I THINK they said you could do it as long as there is profit in it for you. However, it wont get you an insta-ban.

Yeah sisi is where he's talking about and over there they have specific rules regarding pewpewing (it's a silly place I know).

If it's in the cap combat system then they're fair game unless it's on the undock or the cap rotation bacon (which is a piece of bacon a couple hundred k off the undock for caps to isnta to and align to their desired area).

As far as I'm aware you can **** around on the undock just not have full on brawls with bubbles n **** or screw with the people trying to get to one of the other combat areas so...

Edit: really!? D!ck gets censored but arse , feckless gobsheen and shitehawk get through....hmmm

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-09-20 05:48:19 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:

Second question is what constitutes 'aggressive action'?
If I undock and bump somebody is this considered 'aggressive action'? I have had people threaten to 'get me banned on both servers' for bumping on station.
Although I know bans are only on sisi I would like to know the answers to these questions from the devs.

Thank You!
Smile


This has been a "point of discussion" for some time now. The last time CCP staff commented on it, they determined that bumping is NOT harassment in MOST cases. If they people you are bumping make an attempt to leave your area of influence and you follow them around, they could submit a ticket. As they state in the posts about it, its determined on a case by case basis, and I THINK they said you could do it as long as there is profit in it for you. However, it wont get you an insta-ban.



That is interesting. I thought that the whole there needed to be a profit in it for you was what they said about bumping on tranquility. Nothing really seems to constitute a worthwhile 'profit' on sisi because everything costs 100 isk.

Does their definition of 'profit' extend to personal enjoyment? For instance if I want to get my jollies from using a macherial to bump helpless little capitals on the undock so they cant warp to CAs would that be an ok action?


Derp. I didn't see that you said sisi.

That's even funnier he said he'd get you banned on sisi.....

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Mag's
Azn Empire
#10 - 2015-09-20 07:29:41 UTC
If you are in testing systems with set beacons, then simply limit any actions to those areas shown on the overview.

Why you find the need to mess with people at the station on SiSi, is beyond me. Even out of the test systems on SiSi you need someone's consent before you can engage them or interfere with what they do.

So it really is quite simple. Stick to the known areas. If you need to ask, then you must know you're pushing the boundaries. Which is something you dont do on SiSi.

One of the reasons many players like myself don't even bother with the place anymore, is because of players like yourself.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#11 - 2015-09-20 07:43:16 UTC
Mag's wrote:
If you are in testing systems with set beacons, then simply limit any actions to those areas shown on the overview.

Why you find the need to mess with people at the station on SiSi, is beyond me. Even out of the test systems on SiSi you need someone's consent before you can engage them or interfere with what they do.

So it really is quite simple. Stick to the known areas. If you need to ask, then you must know you're pushing the boundaries. Which is something you dont do on SiSi.

One of the reasons many players like myself don't even bother with the place anymore, is because of players like yourself.



Well see my issue is that currently it seems that the rules(as outlined here https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Test_server_rules ) are ill defined and could use some clarification.
In response to your criticism I would like to respond that I don't believe eve should ever be a game where you would have to ask 'why would you do such an awful thing or inquire about it?' and that's what makes it an awesome game.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2015-09-20 07:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Mag's wrote:
If you are in testing systems with set beacons, then simply limit any actions to those areas shown on the overview.

Why you find the need to mess with people at the station on SiSi, is beyond me. Even out of the test systems on SiSi you need someone's consent before you can engage them or interfere with what they do.

So it really is quite simple. Stick to the known areas. If you need to ask, then you must know you're pushing the boundaries. Which is something you dont do on SiSi.

One of the reasons many players like myself don't even bother with the place anymore, is because of players like yourself.



Well see my issue is that currently it seems that the rules(as outlined here https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Test_server_rules ) are ill defined and could use some clarification.
In response to your criticism I would like to respond that I don't believe eve should ever be a game where you would have to ask 'why would you do such an awful thing or inquire about it?' and that's what makes it an awesome game.

But you're not on TQ, that's the point. SiSi is for testing and helping friends and CCP. If you wish to mess around then we have a whole player filled server you can use.

It's not rocket science.

Don't mess around gates and stations. Follow the beacon rules. The test systems are generally open season places. So use them correctly.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Cyclo Hexanol
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#13 - 2015-09-20 08:28:01 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:
Mag's wrote:
If you are in testing systems with set beacons, then simply limit any actions to those areas shown on the overview.

Why you find the need to mess with people at the station on SiSi, is beyond me. Even out of the test systems on SiSi you need someone's consent before you can engage them or interfere with what they do.

So it really is quite simple. Stick to the known areas. If you need to ask, then you must know you're pushing the boundaries. Which is something you dont do on SiSi.

One of the reasons many players like myself don't even bother with the place anymore, is because of players like yourself.



Well see my issue is that currently it seems that the rules(as outlined here https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Test_server_rules ) are ill defined and could use some clarification.
In response to your criticism I would like to respond that I don't believe eve should ever be a game where you would have to ask 'why would you do such an awful thing or inquire about it?' and that's what makes it an awesome game.

But you're not on TQ, that's the point. SiSi is for testing and helping friends and CCP. If you wish to mess around then we have a whole player filled server you can use.

It's not rocket science.

Don't mess around gates and stations. Follow the beacon rules. The test systems are generally open season places. So use them correctly.



You seem to be missing the point.... Its not about 'messing around' but rather about testing tactics and the rules seem to be a little vague about how far I can go to test these tactics.

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King of Stating the Obvious 2015

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Elected by: Random forum alt

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#14 - 2015-09-20 08:40:43 UTC
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:

You seem to be missing the point.... Its not about 'messing around' but rather about testing tactics and the rules seem to be a little vague about how far I can go to test these tactics.
I'm not missing the point, you are.

I'll try and make it simple. Ask a friend to help you test and go to another system. That way you can do as you want and not p!ss people off.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.