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L4 in passive gila?

Author
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-09-19 02:41:32 UTC
RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).

works for L4s?
maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?

thoughts?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-09-19 02:48:04 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).

works for L4s?
maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?

thoughts?


You can but it'll take you forever because you're only doing 550-580 dps. Best to use the Rattler.
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-09-19 03:42:14 UTC
Actually meant to use gila until I can fly ratller.

Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2015-09-19 04:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Forum Toon wrote:
Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills.

That's on paper. Factor in travel time and it will end up being a lot less... Go with the suggestion above: Rattlesnake.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#5 - 2015-09-19 04:49:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
It might feel like you're running slower with that subconscious thought of "under 1000 dps...yuck," mentality; but, as stated, you'll have generally better align time, more mobility, and better grid-to-grid transit due to higher warp speed/accel/decel to make up for it. Longer running missions may suffer on completion time though, like Blockade or Enemies Abound 5 of 5. Missions like Angles Extrav and others that are either short or have a lot of traveling -- especially when your agents like to send you a ways often -- will take much less time because you'll be able to fully utilize the "cruiser's advantage" here.

A Rattler will do the same thing for more dps but less mobility in those regards. Both are good, though personally I'd stick to the Rattler out of the two.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2015-09-19 04:53:46 UTC
it will work, just boring and inefficient.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-09-19 05:35:47 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
Actually meant to use gila until I can fly ratller.

Eft tests of all V profile and t2 weapons shows around 800-900 dps... So i thought at least it`ll be doable with decent skills.


What SP and skills are we talkin?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2015-09-19 06:44:01 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
A Rattler will do the same thing for more dps but less mobility in those regards. Both are good, though personally I'd stick to the Rattler out of the two.

There's not necessarily a huge difference in mobility as you have a lot more slots on the Rattlesnake to play around with to both boost DPS and compensate for inertia, velocity and warp speed.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-09-19 06:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was:
Low: 4 drone damage amp
Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 hardeners, drone navigation comp
High: rapid lights, drone range augmentor

Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.

Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed.
For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#10 - 2015-09-19 09:49:19 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was:
Low: 4 drone damage amp
Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp
Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.

Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed.
For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete.


Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give?
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-09-19 10:49:47 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was:
Low: 4 drone damage amp
Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp
Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.

Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed.
For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete.


Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give?


Lol hardeners of course...
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#12 - 2015-09-19 11:53:43 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
I did lvl 4 in a Gila, excellent ship. Fit was:
Low: 4 drone damage amp
Mid: corelum AB, 2 cn large shield extenders, 2-3 gardeners, drone navigation comp
Rigs t2 shield purger rigs.

Does with augmented hammerheads almost 900dps, fast warp speed.
For most missions better then Rattlesnake, because agility and fast warp. Decline missions like extravaganza, vengeance, because they take a lot of time to complete.


Where do you get gardeners from? Are they "cattle" like the exotic dancers? And what bonus do they give?


Lol hardeners of course...


Awww, I want to strap gardeners to my ship. A shrubbery!
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-09-19 13:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Daniela Doran wrote:
Forum Toon wrote:
RLML, medium drones (T2 with the extra skill), passive shielding (using T2 rigs and maybe those guristas modules they are only 15 mill each).

works for L4s?
maybe upgrade to heavy missile launcher?

thoughts?


You can but it'll take you forever because you're only doing 550-580 dps. Best to use the Rattler.


~750 dps

H- 4x RLML

M- 3x LSE
M- 2x Hardener
M- 10mn AB

L- 3x DDA
L- SPR

R- 3x Purgers


Missiles do ~155 dps @ 30km
Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km

With mission specific hardeners your looking at ~30k ehp that will sustain up to ~450 dps
Ship is very mobile and runs at ~666 m/s

Handles L4's fine
T2 modules are sufficient to the task, no need for bling


edit
With a +4% CPU implant you can use

H- 4x HML

which gets you ~180 dps @ 47km
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-09-19 14:12:07 UTC
If I remember my noob days right, t1 bs with t2 gear but low-medium skills does about 450-550 dps.

My Gila with t2 gear and high skills does more dps than that, I want to say 600-750 dps.

I also have Rattlesnake, it works, but I don't think it is any better than my fof navy raven, pretty boring overall.

In conclusion. Gila definitely does L4. It is more engaging to fly. If you have to travel 2-3 jumps to a mission, it will get you there faster. You will want to upgrade to bs at some point, but until you get there the gila will work.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2015-09-19 15:21:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Kitty Bear wrote:

Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km

And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit.

But this all comes back to what you the OP wants from a mission ship.
If you want to fly a GIla then nothing anyone can put into this discussion will make any difference.

But you did ask for thoughts and opinions.
The Gila is capable but slow to complete missions and is susceptible to destruction should you get webbed and not be able to eliminate the webbers quickly enough.
The Ishtar is also a capable level 4 ships and in many ways it's ability to use sentry drones and the fact that it bonuses all sizes of drones make it a better ship than the Gila. Again subject to destruction if webbed.
The Domi and Navy Domi as well as the Rattle are excellent level 4 ships as well and their advantages, better DPS, more flexible drones load outs and superior tank can and often do allow them to complete mission faster than is possible with the Gila.
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-09-19 15:26:49 UTC
no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#17 - 2015-09-19 23:07:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Forum Toon wrote:
no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats.

Forget heavy drones - go for a combination of sentries and rapid heavy launchers.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-09-20 00:36:44 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km

And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit.


Max speed depends on drone type.

Hammerheads are the slowest at 2520 m/s = 23.8s of flight time for 60 km
Valkyries are the fastest at 3750 m/s = 16s of flight time for 60 km

However it extremely unlikely that each target is 60km from the next one, In most missions targets are clustered in groups, typically at most 3 groups. This reduces the impact of travel time and makes it much less of an issue than you imply it to be.

As for drones taking damage whilst launched. That only happens with someone who doesn't understand drone mechanics launching them 'willy nilly' and doing nothing to manage threats and aggro.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#19 - 2015-09-20 08:16:33 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

Drones do ~600 dps @ 60km

And how long do you have to wait for the drones to close this range? My math suggests it would be roughly 21 seconds for an all drones skills 5 pilot with no implants, rigs or modules that could affect speed. So when you add the travel time to the time required for them to chew through a target your effective DPS is significantly lower. And we have not even begun to talk about the potential that your drones are taking damage the entire time they are in transit.


Max speed depends on drone type.

Hammerheads are the slowest at 2520 m/s = 23.8s of flight time for 60 km
Valkyries are the fastest at 3750 m/s = 16s of flight time for 60 km

However it extremely unlikely that each target is 60km from the next one, In most missions targets are clustered in groups, typically at most 3 groups. This reduces the impact of travel time and makes it much less of an issue than you imply it to be.

As for drones taking damage whilst launched. That only happens with someone who doesn't understand drone mechanics launching them 'willy nilly' and doing nothing to manage threats and aggro.


Those are just simple calculations, in practice you'd be surprised how much drones derp. Even after reaching their target they initially overshoot and miss a few shots before settling into their orbit. You're also not taking into account the acceleration and deceleration of drones. So even though the next target is only 10km away, they have to accelerate to reach their target, overshoot yet again, then slow down before their paper dps is being applied.

Also drone dps isn't as reliable as guns/missiles. Sometimes drones inexplicably outtrack their own tracking against massive targets. For example if you use heavy drones on a POCO, you'll find that they get grazing shots and misses sometimes.

It's really sentries or go home for PvE IMO. Of course combat drones are useable and have their niche (AFK Ishtar/VNI in null). However if you're looking for efficiency you can't beat instant damage application.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-09-20 11:40:12 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
no argue from me it will not be optimal but if I can do L4s in gila while I train for Rattler (battleship \ heavy drones etc...) then heck why not... just wanted to be sure I won't sit there for hours or get pop'd with alpha damage from the rats.


Gila has a very strong passive tank, players will 1 shot alpha you (with enough Ganknado's), but not sure how many they need to bring to accomplish it, definitely more than 1 is needed.

NPC's can just beat it down over time ... offhand the AE4 bonus room does enough dps initially to break the regen of the fit I posted

Dato Koppla wrote:


Those are just simple calculations, in practice you'd be surprised how much drones derp. Even after reaching their target they initially overshoot and miss a few shots before settling into their orbit. You're also not taking into account the acceleration and deceleration of drones. So even though the next target is only 10km away, they have to accelerate to reach their target, overshoot yet again, then slow down before their paper dps is being applied.

Also drone dps isn't as reliable as guns/missiles. Sometimes drones inexplicably outtrack their own tracking against massive targets. For example if you use heavy drones on a POCO, you'll find that they get grazing shots and misses sometimes.

It's really sentries or go home for PvE IMO. Of course combat drones are useable and have their niche (AFK Ishtar/VNI in null). However if you're looking for efficiency you can't beat instant damage application.


For a Rattlesnake i'd recommend a Gecko over regular heavies, it's a much more effective use of the 50mb.

In my experience Medium scouts only have issues when tracking frigates & destroyers, I don't keep logs but iirc misses occur once in every 10-15 lines of combat feed, and the frequency reduces as target ship size increases

If your finding drone tracking to be an issue it's fairly easy to overcome
Replace an LSE or the AB with an Omnidirectional Tracking Link + Tacking Speed Script

tracking for drones is a skill-less value, not even sure if there are rigs/implants for it


in closing
Drones aren't the afkmachinesofdestruction that people so often make them out to be.
They require a reasonable level of micro-management and a good awareness of combat & aggression mechanics
When you use them as afkmachinesofdestruction ... they WILL die
If you want an AFK playstyle

Use FoF missiles
or mining lazers
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