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Two Step: killing the gravy train...

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Author
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-09-18 09:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
https://www.themittani.com/features/time-derail-gravy-train

When i first started reading this I thought "oh great, another nerf wormholes article" but when i was done reading, I found I agreed with everything he said.

What are some of your thoughts on this?
Dobriy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-09-18 10:11:53 UTC
But why the author of this article didn't propose just remove the anomalies in NS? I think it will be much better)
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3 - 2015-09-18 10:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
It's an idealistic article.

It's a true one but an idealistic one.

There comes a point in all games where everybody becomes rich. Eve has hit that.

A billion isk doesn't mean anything anymore.

Make eve harder. Maybe.

Yaay!!!!

Winthorp
#4 - 2015-09-18 10:46:23 UTC
The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.

The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.

Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-09-18 10:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
A bit uncalled for Winthorp but...

I think many people feel incursions earn too much isk given how safe they are to do and it's probably past time that ccp changed things up with them.

On the wormhole capital escalations, if they were "turned off" it would probably lead to more people farming their connections and thus, more activity in space. I could be mistaken but i think Corbexx is an advocate for the removal of escalations too and it would be interesting to hear what he has to say on the subject.
Winthorp
#6 - 2015-09-18 11:24:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Rek Seven wrote:
A bit uncalled for Winthorp but...

I think many people feel incursions earn too much isk given how safe they are to do and it's probably past time that ccp changed things up with them.

On the wormhole capital escalations, if they were "turned off" it would probably lead to more people farming their connections and thus, more activity in space. I could be mistaken but i think Corbexx is an advocate for the removal of escalations too and it would be interesting to hear what he has to say on the subject.


How is it uncalled for, he doesn't reference anything of substance and it is literally a few paragraphs of an ex CSM with an over inflated ego that has become so bittervet that he felt he needed to write those few paragraphs of tears into an actual article that came of more like a rant.

Onto escalations as i have said in the trweetfleet wormholes slack channel, i believe we are about to get a WH escalations nerf. Day 1 of the summit minutes discusses WH PVE and then NDA's the discussion. Combine this with our current WH CSM that wants to nerf home WH escalation and encourage more actual group site farming with escalations based on ships other then capitals. (I hove spoken with Corbexx about this in the past and i really support a WH escalation nerf even though i am one of the bads abusing said mechanic).

His previous ideas i believe would encourage people to be in a lot of different ships out and about in more unsafe chains. What could anyone not like about that. Whether his ideas would ever line up with CCP's ideas on to how to solve this i would reserve judgement lol.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#7 - 2015-09-18 12:03:16 UTC
This quote says it all about the author's grasp of reality:

Quote:
It needs more poor players who are desperate for their next paycheck,


Those guys don't:
Quote:
who can be bribed to change sides. It needs more times where you swear at your PC, throw your headset down in disgust and swear to quit the game for good this time, only to come back the next day more determined than ever to get your revenge.


Those guys just leave, because a dystopian society makes for a great thing to read about, not to live through.
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#8 - 2015-09-18 12:16:23 UTC
It's a problem, but solving it isn't simply a case of turning off existing isk faucets (and really, incursions isn't a particularly great example), all that would do would be to entrench the already powerful whilst making it harder for everyone else to catch up.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-09-18 12:24:18 UTC
He's not wrong on any particular point, but the article itself should just be titled 'sh!t we already know'.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Jezza McWaffle
Suddenly Pineapples.
#10 - 2015-09-18 12:31:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jezza McWaffle
Incursions are a great example, ridiculous amount of ISK for the level of safety.

I am really hoping we see the death of escalations, which also is stupid level of ISK for a few people. At least group sites with subs your amount of people equates to faster site times.

I agree with Winthorp here (and we've spoken before), there are definitely ways we can improve site running in the chain to make it better than it currently is for group work, currently the ISK / hour is fairly decent compared to other activities. though I do believe that the harder sites deserve higher payouts.

Talking about the article, it seems like alot of stuff these days, people complaining about a general aspect with no idea how to actually achieve the end goals, he could be a very good artistic Architect.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog

Borsek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-09-18 12:35:53 UTC
I dunno about WH nerfs, it's one of the most dangerous forms of pve, even NS carriers carry less inherent risk.

However I agree that the 'small things are neat' is aids. Eve's combat per se is boring - equip the right stuff, maintain the correct range, shoot the right target. What made it fun was the fact your opponent LOST a lot of isk/time if you won. The adrenaline came from taking your new mercedes into a nuke fight and hoping it survived, not the actual combat itself. The feeling I achieved with t2 cruisers and t3 BS once can now only partially be replicated by using a dread, and I can replace even thos multiple times over.

All in all I agree with twostep, eve has become risk free in the sense that, even if I lose everything, I can print out 100M per hour easy just farming incursions in hisec, or even more with simple trading due to the massive market expansion.

What used to be a land filled with full-blown autists like myself, people who stabbed each other only in the places it would hurt most, is now filled with prancing normies having pillow fights with each other. Even if you win the fight, the feeling of accomplishment is similar to beating a 3 year old at chess.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-09-18 12:45:03 UTC
Winthorp wrote:

Onto escalations as i have said in the trweetfleet wormholes slack channel, i believe we are about to get a WH escalations nerf. Day 1 of the summit minutes discusses WH PVE and then NDA's the discussion. Combine this with our current WH CSM that wants to nerf home WH escalation and encourage more actual group site farming with escalations based on ships other then capitals. (I hove spoken with Corbexx about this in the past and i really support a WH escalation nerf even though i am one of the bads abusing said mechanic).

His previous ideas i believe would encourage people to be in a lot of different ships out and about in more unsafe chains. What could anyone not like about that. Whether his ideas would ever line up with CCP's ideas on to how to solve this i would reserve judgement lol.


pretty much this. alot has been NDA'd out. I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.

I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.
Borsek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-09-18 12:48:12 UTC
So is the next patch gonna be called Krabageddon? When all the krabs move back to nullsec?

Eve online: The great krab migration of 2015
Foedus Latro
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-09-18 13:30:36 UTC
Borsek wrote:
I dunno about WH nerfs, it's one of the most dangerous forms of pve, even NS carriers carry less inherent risk.


It helps when you run escalations after closing your static and you're sitting on field with double digit dreads :))

Just a wormhole guy

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-09-18 13:56:07 UTC
corbexx wrote:
I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.

I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.


Are you guys of the opinion that cap escalations are the problem or the fact that they can be ran multiple times before they despawn?

I hope it's the latter Straight
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#16 - 2015-09-18 14:10:25 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
corbexx wrote:
I think a fair few would agree cap escalations are used for printing isk, but you know what its in the rules and I don't blame anyone for milking them for all there worth. I sure have.

I still don't think they are good for w space, though and want them changed.


Are you guys of the opinion that cap escalations are the problem or the fact that they can be ran multiple times before they despawn?

I hope it's the latter Straight



One or two people can do a complete escalation cycle for every site in a system multi boxing.
and it can be done in near enough saftey. the loss of the ships them selves replaced in a day or 2 (t2) out to much bother.

so long as you dont get ganked more than once a week, its printing isk baby.
(and according to the kb stats) most people are getting away with it for months/years before dying.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#17 - 2015-09-18 14:48:22 UTC
Dobriy wrote:
But why the author of this article didn't propose just remove the anomalies in NS? I think it will be much better)


When I was on the CSM, I basically said just that. Nullsec PvE should be group based, just like wormhole PvE used to be. You have to be in a group to take space in nullsec, why should you be able to make isk solo (and mostly risk free)?

Winthorp wrote:
The whole article reaks of someone who just became bored with the game and too bitter to have a go at something different.

The article pretty much has no substance at all to any of his arguments that it just comes off like a crying teenager that just got dumped by their boyfriend and can't look at another boy at the mall.

Seriously keep playing Ark Two Step and don't come back.


I have done just about all there is to do in EVE, from highsec industry to nullsec. The whole article is about that the issue is not "I need something to do" but that when I do stuff to other people, they should care. That is what sets EVE apart from other games, and it is getting watered down every day.

Also, wtf is Ark?

Also, I love how your next post is basically agreeing with everything I said. I have no problem with capital escalations that take 10 or 15 people and some time to complete, so people have a chance to jump those people.

Mike Voidstar wrote:
This quote says it all about the author's grasp of reality:

Quote:
It needs more poor players who are desperate for their next paycheck,


Those guys don't:
Quote:
who can be bribed to change sides. It needs more times where you swear at your PC, throw your headset down in disgust and swear to quit the game for good this time, only to come back the next day more determined than ever to get your revenge.


Those guys just leave, because a dystopian society makes for a great thing to read about, not to live through.


Uh, I lived through this. I have gotten so damn mad at this game so many times back in the past. My problem is that people don't get mad anymore. If you haven't done exactly what I described, you aren't playing EVE right.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#18 - 2015-09-18 15:28:08 UTC
if you think theres risk in cap escalations you are doing it wrong.

Event Organizer of EVE North East

Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-09-18 15:28:53 UTC
Two step wrote:
My problem is that people don't get mad anymore. If you haven't done exactly what I described, you aren't playing EVE right.

Amen brother :)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Aladar Dangerface
Protean Concept
Moss Piglet Preservation Society
#20 - 2015-09-18 15:34:13 UTC
Escalation isk needs moved into the static and reduced a touch.

Incursions need to DIAF. I was so hoping that the drifter incursions were the beginning of the end for the sansha ones.

I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.

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