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Allow Crystal set on Capitals Boosters
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Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#21 - 2015-09-21 18:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Don't break when something is not broken.

Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers.
Can be balanced I think.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-09-21 18:53:43 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Anneka Rice wrote:
Nope Shield caps don't need them. shield caps all ready tank way more than armor and for the most part have more EHP so why do we need to change that?

all shield capitals? are you sure about that?


The Caldari ones tank more than the Amarr ones (tank bonus's) and the Minmatar ones have more ehp than the Gallente ones (support/DPS bonus's) so yes seems fine to me.

Shield caps are harder to fit, armor fits can be done on the cheap were as shield needs isk to make them worth it.. but when you don't fit your capital ship like a scrub like its a T1 cruiser hull they are very good.

Phoenix is the highest tanking dread and also the best at blaping right now. The nag is used alot in WH space with both armor and shield fits, Chimera Has the largest Active tank in the game and can have cap stable tanks above 30k dps if fitted right and 60k+ Burst tanks. Wyvern has the 2nd largest EHP's after the Leviathan both of which are more than any thing else in the game.
Levi has coolest DD in the game now and is also 2nd fastest after the rag, the rag haveing the best DD for killing armor supers is the fastest and also has more EHP than one of the other Armor titans. Nidhoggur is the best at RR'ing (quickly saving something like a pos) and has pretty much same tank as a nice fit archon if you spend some isk on it. and the Hel's are the only thing that can get close to a gang of wyverns in terms of active tanking each other while also been the fastest caps in the game.


So erm yer We don't need your help CCP plez don't mess with us.....

It is true that most (ill take your word on the thanny niddy comparison) have better base tanks. That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat.

I wouldn't be all to adverse to shield capitals losing a bit of hp from certain areas to justify allowing proper implant usage. Either that or armor tanks becoming less reliant on the bonuses from implants and links and buffing the base.

The main issue being (imo) shield fits having less options to specialize in their strengths compared to armor specializing in theirs.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-09-21 20:45:28 UTC
You say that but shield Moros are a thing.... What is a shield cap and not a shield cap?


The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Anneka Rice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#24 - 2015-09-21 21:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Anneka Rice
Rowells wrote:
That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat.


Plz Stop typing as you seem to not know anything about cap ships or even been able to use EFT. and looking at your kill-board history i can see why.


Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Don't break when something is not broken.

Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers.
Can be balanced I think.


It already is balanced no need to change anything.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-09-21 22:33:45 UTC
Anneka Rice wrote:
Rowells wrote:
That being said, once you go beyond that into links and and inplants, the difference drastically shifts. It goes from small to moderate differences to vastly different situations. The potential max tank on an archon is vastly superior to the chimera, even after heat.


Plz Stop typing as you seem to not know anything about cap ships or even been able to use EFT. and looking at your kill-board history i can see why.


Bagrat Skalski wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Don't break when something is not broken.

Add crystal effects, and diminish repaired hp of active shield boosters, or boost armor active reppers.
Can be balanced I think.


It already is balanced no need to change anything.


Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P

Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use.
Anneka Rice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#26 - 2015-09-21 22:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Anneka Rice
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P

Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use.


PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-22 00:26:38 UTC
Anneka Rice wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P

Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use.


PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point.


Have seen claims from PL members for years that shield is better, but only ever seen "proof of consept" battles. If shields were the way to go you would already be using shield capital fleets as your main doctrine
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-09-22 00:38:12 UTC
Anneka Rice wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Im sure shield capitals are far superior to armor, thats why your alliance use armor to keep it interesting :P

Quick look at KB show PL lost 4 armor dreads this month (including a phoenix) and 1 shield fit phoenix. Clear favor for armor over shield for capital use.


PL Picked Armor supers and caps because in 2010/2011 our two most used fleet ships were both armor so it was decided at that point to have an armor super fleet so there was an escalation path from subs to caps to supers that all use the same command ships and stuff. then we invented slowcats and as our supers were mostly armor we used armor carriers... we do have a shield slowcat fleet just like we have a shield super and titan fleet but it takes time to build. but as of now we are about 70% armor and 30% shield so we can now escalate both armor and to some extent shield at this point.

Surely it has nothing to do with the fact that armor supers are proliferated far more across the entirety of eve. Or the fact that (unless they have changed drastically recently) the numbers of either amarr or gallente supers individually outnumber the number of caldari and minmatar combined. Nope, has nothing to do with the balls-deep tank you can pull with slaves.

But that's besides the point, since I doubt any super pilots would be interested in a crystal set for their shield boosting wyvern or hel.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-09-22 00:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Kenrailae wrote:
You say that but shield Moros are a thing.... What is a shield cap and not a shield cap?



You would be comparing what the ship excels or specializes in. Arguably ambiguous with certain ships (looking at you minmatar).

If we were to compare things like shield moroses, we need to compare them to things like armor pheonixes. Or at first, to their own fitting options.

E: not to discard a shield Moros if it truly is dank
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-09-22 03:16:02 UTC
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Anneka Rice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#31 - 2015-09-22 07:11:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Anneka Rice
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.


Because Why.... Shield Active tanked ships already tank way more than Armor, So if they change crystals they will nerf shield boosters to compensate to a point were you WILL NEED a full crystal set to have what we have now...

Its like totally pointless change.



Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Have seen claims from PL members for years that shield is better, but only ever seen "proof of consept" battles. If shields were the way to go you would already be using shield capital fleets as your main doctrine


Did you even read a goddam thing i put? o hay guys lets change out over 1000 armor caps to shield overnight so we have a cap fleet that works best with only 30% of our supers... are you ********.
TrickyBlackSteel
Black Consuls
#32 - 2015-09-22 07:13:04 UTC
Anneka Rice wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.


Because Why.... Shield Active tanked ships already tank way more than Armor, So if they change crystals they will nerf shield boosters to compensate to a point were you WILL NEED a full crystal set to have what we have now...

Its like totally pointless change.

Yes they do,but they depend way more on capacitor than armor ones,i mean their capacitor going down faster than armor ones
Anneka Rice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2015-09-22 07:16:57 UTC
TrickyBlackSteel wrote:
Anneka Rice wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.


Because Why.... Shield Active tanked ships already tank way more than Armor, So if they change crystals they will nerf shield boosters to compensate to a point were you WILL NEED a full crystal set to have what we have now...

Its like totally pointless change.

Yes they do,but they depend way more on capacitor than armor ones,i mean their capacitor going down faster than armor ones


Yer they will if you look just at EFT numbers because shield is good at max burst tanking so in eft they look like they cap out super quick but if you manage your cap...(just like you would on an active tanked PVP BS or something) that's were they start to shine.
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#34 - 2015-09-22 08:04:29 UTC
TrickyBlackSteel wrote:
Yes they do,but they depend way more on capacitor than armor ones,i mean their capacitor going down faster than armor ones


It matters not if there Active Tanked Cruser Hac T3 BS Cap, the shield tanks all ways uses more cap than the armor tanks but they also tank a lot more. And with Caps its all ready been balanced that implants don't work.

They should deffo Boost T2 BS Armor tanks tho as they are pretty useless compared to there shield versions if you would like to change something change that.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-09-22 08:39:58 UTC
I'm inclined to believe PL when it comes to cap/super theorycraft tbh.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2015-09-22 09:38:19 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I'm inclined to believe PL when it comes to cap/super theorycraft tbh.


They say shield work better but keep increasing their armor capital numbers. If shields were realy as good as they say there is no way they would stick to armor for so many years.

So if we trust the theorycrafters in PL, armor capital is the way to go!
Trobax
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-09-22 09:53:07 UTC
TrickyBlackSteel wrote:
Anneka Rice wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Crystal set does say it improves shield boosters, and Capital Shield Booster is a shield booster. I don't see why the crystal set shouldn't boost capital shield boosters.


Because Why.... Shield Active tanked ships already tank way more than Armor, So if they change crystals they will nerf shield boosters to compensate to a point were you WILL NEED a full crystal set to have what we have now...

Its like totally pointless change.

Yes they do,but they depend way more on capacitor than armor ones,i mean their capacitor going down faster than armor ones


If cap is the issue then allowing the "Shield compensation" skill to have an effect on capital sized modules could be it. But crystals could be a bit too much
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#38 - 2015-09-22 11:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tappits
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I'm inclined to believe PL when it comes to cap/super theorycraft tbh.


They say shield work better but keep increasing their armor capital numbers. If shields were realy as good as they say there is no way they would stick to armor for so many years.

So if we trust the theorycrafters in PL, armor capital is the way to go!


How can we swap now? like really how... do you know some one who would like to swap 2000 armor caps 400 armor supers and 150 armor titans for shield ones......if you can find some one who is willing to swap convo me. you have no idea wtf you are on about so plz stfu.

Shield supers might be better but when you have one of the largest super fleets in the game anyway it makes no sence to swap over for the limited gains you would get and the way it is the best way round to have it (as we will all ways have armor supers anyway because people like the nyx and the iron man aeon's ) is the have more of the weaker ones (i.e armor) and less of the stronger shield ones. But this is all totally off topic anyway because Supers don't active tank nor need crystal sets..

Shield caps are balanced fine were they are now all we need is a resign for people to use caps for sov and we all gravy
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-09-22 14:06:51 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I'm inclined to believe PL when it comes to cap/super theorycraft tbh.


They say shield work better but keep increasing their armor capital numbers. If shields were realy as good as they say there is no way they would stick to armor for so many years.

So if we trust the theorycrafters in PL, armor capital is the way to go!


How can we swap now? like really how... do you know some one who would like to swap 2000 armor caps 400 armor supers and 150 armor titans for shield ones......if you can find some one who is willing to swap convo me. you have no idea wtf you are on about so plz stfu.

Shield supers might be better but when you have one of the largest super fleets in the game anyway it makes no sence to swap over for the limited gains you would get and the way it is the best way round to have it (as we will all ways have armor supers anyway because people like the nyx and the iron man aeon's ) is the have more of the weaker ones (i.e armor) and less of the stronger shield ones. But this is all totally off topic anyway because Supers don't active tank nor need crystal sets..

Shield caps are balanced fine were they are now all we need is a resign for people to use caps for sov and we all gravy

I might be more willing to believe that, if it weren't the exact same scenario for pretty much every other super fleet in the game. I imagine someone out there runs a shield-heavy doctrine, but I haven't seen it before.

The bonuses from armor implants can be extremely powerful, flipping the overtanked shield cap on its head. And that really helps with rr fleets that use buffer more heavily. I can definitely see the base numbers for shields being tweaked before a change like what is suggested.
Anneka Rice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#40 - 2015-09-22 16:33:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
I might be more willing to believe that, if it weren't the exact same scenario for pretty much every other super fleet in the game. I imagine someone out there runs a shield-heavy doctrine, but I haven't seen it before.


Heed to the south as witness the RUS RUS Wyvern super fleet.