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[Announcement] Borkstar's Gene Therapy a Success

Author
Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-09-17 16:37:17 UTC

It seems like Dr. Borkstar had doubts of his own racial identity, and he may have been uncomfortable even in his own skin, so to speak. The surgery may seem unnecessary and cosmetic to the layperson, but we feel that in Dr. Borkstar's mind it was very necessary and a matter of self acceptance and inner peace.

Who is to say we can judge him for the medically gruesome choice? The desperation of the act speaks to how important this sense of racial identity was in Dr. Borkstar's mind. We respect the power of the mind, and the choices people make in the pursuit of happiness.

There are some who label him Apostate and Abomination and other such things. We do not employ, or believe in such labels. All we see is a person who was born Amarr drift away from God. We see this only as a failure of our ability to connect with him, to be his friends, to be his mentors, and to share with him the beauty of our Faith.

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#22 - 2015-09-17 16:53:30 UTC
Fascinating.

Have you thought about licensing this story to one of those low-budget science fiction studios?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-09-17 18:20:59 UTC
It would make for an entertaining direct to VR holoreel. That is for certain.

Also, what has it resulted in? Just because you have a paint and brush, doesnt mean you can make art. Genetic modification to be jovian without the jovian environment, culture or knowledge doesnt mean much.

I would also like to point out, if 99%, that is dramatically different. Even my own genetic code in its unmodified state is much closer...

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2015-09-17 18:24:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
Goldfinch wrote:

It seems like Dr. Borkstar had doubts of his own racial identity, and he may have been uncomfortable even in his own skin, so to speak. The surgery may seem unnecessary and cosmetic to the layperson, but we feel that in Dr. Borkstar's mind it was very necessary and a matter of self acceptance and inner peace.

Who is to say we can judge him for the medically gruesome choice? The desperation of the act speaks to how important this sense of racial identity was in Dr. Borkstar's mind. We respect the power of the mind, and the choices people make in the pursuit of happiness.

There are some who label him Apostate and Abomination and other such things. We do not employ, or believe in such labels. All we see is a person who was born Amarr drift away from God. We see this only as a failure of our ability to connect with him, to be his friends, to be his mentors, and to share with him the beauty of our Faith.



I would not lose a lot of sleep over this one, Lady Rkard. Many people expended blood, sweat and tears trying to save this one. some people are just... lost.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2015-09-17 18:42:03 UTC
In the end, it's science; a body is a body, and the Doctor now has a new one, one that seems to be solving some of the problems he's had in the past. After all, we're free as capsuleers to pursue whatever we wish in this sort of field and, though it may seem to be "too much" in some ways at first glance, it's really no issue.

I do offer my congratulations on a successful procedure.

-Uriel
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2015-09-17 19:06:45 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:

As for yourself, Ms. Aspenstar, I apologize if it seemed that I was disparaging the Empire's stance on the sciences. I was sincerely asking for clarification; I do believe that the official stance on geno-modification is a bit outdated, but agree that what the Jove did to themselves was short-sighted and, as we can all agree, ultimately disastrous. It is my hope that whatever comes of this, we can learn more of the race itself - and its ultimate fate - through observation.



To their defense though, it sounds a bit easy to say with detachment sir... They certainly did not benefited from any conceivable prior model that failed in one way or another like we do with their own history.

Goldfinch wrote:

It seems like Dr. Borkstar had doubts of his own racial identity, and he may have been uncomfortable even in his own skin, so to speak. The surgery may seem unnecessary and cosmetic to the layperson, but we feel that in Dr. Borkstar's mind it was very necessary and a matter of self acceptance and inner peace.

Who is to say we can judge him for the medically gruesome choice? The desperation of the act speaks to how important this sense of racial identity was in Dr. Borkstar's mind. We respect the power of the mind, and the choices people make in the pursuit of happiness.

There are some who label him Apostate and Abomination and other such things. We do not employ, or believe in such labels. All we see is a person who was born Amarr drift away from God. We see this only as a failure of our ability to connect with him, to be his friends, to be his mentors, and to share with him the beauty of our Faith.



I wanted to say that I... really like your point of view!

I mean, I did not think about it that way, and it provides an interesting perspective to me. I you can forgive me for saying so...
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#27 - 2015-09-17 19:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Use of retrovirals to alter genetics in vivo likely wouldn't have quite the effect some are expecting in either the short or long term. Syndromes resulting from the synthesis of proteins incompatible with existing structures in the subject, or failure to synthesize other proteins required by the subject are the most likely result, I believe.

The Jove are, according to all existing knowledge, a race of clones. We don't know what methods are used to grow or assemble them; which organs are grown in the clone body, which are grown outside of the clone body according to other genetic templates, which are purely the creation of artifice, and how integrated cybernetic or artificial structures are with biological structures. It's worth noting that Jovian DNA has been possessed by biotech research firms since at least Misu Baniya's accident in YC106, which means we've had eleven years without a major biotechnology revolution clearly traceable to Baniya's DNA.

While possession of DNA is all well and good, and allows us some degree of understanding of novel proteins or organs formed in accordance with that genetic data, it remains an incomplete picture, with notable gaps in understanding due to unknown structures present in the body and unknown technologies used in the clone's creation.

Even considering this, use of genetic therapies alone will still not be sufficient to create new organs, or to otherwise change gross morphology.

I suppose certain genetic markers have changed, but-- I guess I just don't see the point. I suppose tinkering for tinkering's sake is a fair thing, but I don't see any long-term therapeutic or scientific value to this endeavor. We could find as much out simply by simulating genetic expressions, or engaging in gene therapy with a medical testing clone.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-09-17 19:39:14 UTC
So the Jove were basically human.

And there was this thing where they all caught this disease.

And now they're all mostly dead.

But the rest of us were immune because we were genetically just different enough.

And now you've gone and brought all of us one step closer to making EVERYONE IN THE F*UCKING CLUSTER suscepitble to this disease.

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to science until you've learned how to brain.

“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.

Alesius Lerance
Chrysos Aigis
#29 - 2015-09-17 20:14:04 UTC
I share your concern Moray, but to my knowledge that condition is genetic.

Congratulations on a successful procedure. Will Borkstar be kept in the labs in the medium term for observation and research purposes?

Family, Corporation, and State, in that order. What else is there worth fighting for?

Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-09-17 20:24:18 UTC
Rook, I think you misunderstand what exactly the Jovian Disease was - or perhaps is. As far as we are currently aware, it was more of a syndrome, a consequence of their fiddling with their genetic code. I don't believe that this will pose any medical risk to the rest of us, only to Frenjo - who, by the way, now wishes only to be referred to as Viriel, a Jove name that he has chosen for himself.

I spent a great deal of time in the recovery ward at Angels Labs, visiting Viriel. Again, I am not endorsing his actions, but repeating the reasoning that he offered me. He said that because the Amarr had rejected him so firmly, he no longer wanted to be Amarrian. While it is easy to judge and say that what he has done - or has had done to him - is morally wrong, perhaps this is cause for introspection.

The harder, but more just, way of bringing the wayward to the path of light is not through ridicule, shaming, or condemnation. It is through welcoming the stray back into the fold. The believer who loses his way, without the loving support and gentle guidance of his peers, becomes the recalcitrant enemy of the faith. And that enemy is the creation of those once-friends and peers who allowed it to happen.

Regardless of our differences in views and opinions, I will stand by Viriel as his friend. A man who abandons his own in dark times does not deserve to stand by them in their time of strength.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#31 - 2015-09-17 22:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaret Victorian
I say we must research how fast he will become depressed and suicidal. It is very, very important.

How do you perform such tests, hm... I am not an expert, but put him in cage probably?
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-09-17 22:42:33 UTC
I have already conferred with Seraphim, requesting that a battery of psych evaluations be administered while he is in recovery. As for his mental well-being in the future, only time will tell. He will be kept in close observation.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#33 - 2015-09-17 23:31:02 UTC
It is a grievous, grievous sin for a True Amarr — a Chosen of God — to de-Amarrize himself into a lesser bloodline. A grievous, grievous sin.
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#34 - 2015-09-18 00:46:33 UTC
This was a bad idea. I've told the capsuleer formerly known as Frenjo Borkstar as much.

Genetic Angel Laboratories and the Peione Foundation should have known better. You all should have known better. Did any of you actually stop for one second to consider if what you did was in any way a wise course of action?

While Rook Moray is wrong in the possibility of the Jovian disease, he's totally right in his idea that the capsuleer formerly known as Frenjo Borkstar might now have it. Probably has it even.

So even if he doesn't die very quickly in the next six months as his organs react violently to the lack of Jovian equipment in his body, he can look forward to suddenly deciding to stop living one day.

There's possibly even time to reverse it before his organs fail. Someone should probably jump to it.
Quattras Peione
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-09-18 01:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Quattras Peione
Apparently it is necessary to once again state that the only involvement that the Foundation and I have in this matter is personal support for Viriel, née Borkstar. We neither endorsed nor enabled the procedure or the research leading up to this moment. The Peione Foundation is a humanitarian aid agency and nothing more. My field of expertise is Military Science, completely unrelated to medicine or genetic research.

There are backup clones on standby, should the worst come to be. This was a point on which I insisted with both the staff of Angels Labs and my dear friend Viriel. Short of actually preventing the experiment itself, which was beyond my control, I assure you all that I and my staff are taking every possible precaution to protect both the physical health of Viriel and the integrity of his (admittedly already dubious) mental well-being.

That said, Ms. Riordan, it surprises me that you of all individuals, as a prominent transhumanist, would take such a strong stance against this experiment. To be frank, it seems to me like something that I would hear whispered rumors of happening in Origin. Please take no offense, as none is intended; it is not mine to judge.

Dr. Quattras Alvar Peione

No, I'm not that kind of doctor.

Yockerbow
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-09-18 06:07:26 UTC
Quattras Peione wrote:
That said, Ms. Riordan, it surprises me that you of all individuals, as a prominent transhumanist, would take such a strong stance against this experiment. To be frank, it seems to me like something that I would hear whispered rumors of happening in Origin. Please take no offense, as none is intended; it is not mine to judge.


I'm guessing the appropriate analogy would be a prominent avant-garde chef telling you that it is in fact still a bad idea to ice your cake with cyanide.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#37 - 2015-09-18 06:28:06 UTC
Some people are just too stupid to live.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
#38 - 2015-09-18 13:56:09 UTC
For some reason, the thread title reminded me of that old gag in holo films.

You know, the one with the doctor with the strong accent.

"I have good news und bad news"
"What's the good news, Doctor?"
"The operation was a complete success."
"And the bad news ?"
"Unfortunately, the patient died."

Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.

Grash Uriza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-09-18 14:28:19 UTC
Rook Moray wrote:

But the rest of us were immune because we were genetically just different enough.

And now you've gone and brought all of us one step closer to making EVERYONE IN THE F*UCKING CLUSTER suscepitble to this disease.



The Jovian Disease is purely genetic in origin. It's is not a transmittable say in the same way you'll get a cold. Only the Jove have it because through they chose to interbreed through extreme repeated cloning. It has caused irreparable damage to their DNA.

Or simply, the Jovian Disease is what happens when you marry our cousin and then have a kid.
Grash Uriza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2015-09-18 14:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Grash Uriza
Quattras Peione wrote:
Apparently it is necessary to once again state that the only involvement that the Foundation and I have in this matter is personal support for Viriel, née Borkstar. We neither endorsed nor enabled the procedure or the research leading up to this moment. The Peione Foundation is a humanitarian aid agency and nothing more. My field of expertise is Military Science, completely unrelated to medicine or genetic research.


While you might not be wearing a lab coat, there's no mistaking the advantage of a Jove Enabled pilot. So please cut the hypocrisy in that you "just support" Borkstar. It's to your advantage to be an enabler to see that this procedure goes forward.

What is taking place is clearly UNNATURAL and you ignore all the warnings of the fate of the Jove by undertaking this.
But It's okay... For science and military.

Deus vult, Tu es morionem!
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