Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Except, that original argument is about playing the game. Supporting the state of the game and saying to play something else counter out.

What about putting those links on the edge of a POS force-field? Can't do much about that, especially not for "quick fun". So, there's one example of added content: gameplay without links -- engagements that would be taken because that's why those characters are there.

An arena would exemplify balance or overprevalence? That's great. The design can still limit this though. Most arenas from most games are pretty fair. The links example is valid here again: a place that mitigates the N+1 problems of free roam exemplifies X v X skillfulness. Exhibiting skillfulness is a motivator.

How something has been is no assurance of how something should be. This is the whole argument, apparently, and it is also logically invalid. The same with, "but it's not *really* EVE," there's no logic or "concrete proof" about how something should be with these. Except, with the arena discussion, a place for that semi-instant content is literally more content for the demographics that are limited from roaming. The evidence here is a great amount of roam videos that get a very limited amount of action.

Innovation produces advertisements and intrigue.

Since we're accurately quoting other people and everything........






Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

First, you CAN play the game. No one is stopping you. You are 100% capable of playing this game right now. You are expected to follow the rules of the game.

Second, again, as I know I've suggested to you multiple times, and others have as well, why don't you convo dudes, invite them to your fleet, have just you two in the fleet so no one gets boosts, and duel? Why is that so hard? Failing that, Take part in what this game is supposed to be, a social game, and have a friend give you links for a fight? What again, is so hard? Or better yet, go join a corp and find out you don't actually like shooting stuff, you like building it, or join a corp which focuses on shooting stuff so you have other people to shoot stuff with and learn from? Why is this hard?



Gameplay without links already exists. You can't claim that as something unique you're adding. It is already a thing.




Next paragraph. Your answer and the correct analysis of human behavior and gameplay are on completely opposite sides of the country. Links are already covered, already dealt with, there are ways to deal with links and ways to not deal with them. You are blatantly choosing to ignore all of those because it requires a little effort. So I shall blatantly discard any further mentions of links from you as that subject has been dealt with. The 'design' of an arena is the problem. It will not render the reliably 'fair' outcome you think it will. Again, go play literally any arena esque game out there, be it World of X or Call of Duty or whatever and you tell me how fair that gets when one side gets given all the 'good' people and the other side gets all the 'not bad' people, or one side gets all the good tanks and the other gets all the crappy ones(using WoT), or one side gets that spawn which always loses and the other doesn't or one side gets a better team composition and the other doesn't and so forth. These are all well documented and known problems with arena games. This also applies on a 1v1 scale because some fits are just better than others, even though they are both T1 frigates, or they are better suited for 1v1 or this or that or can just dictate the whole fight. In some cases those 2mil and 2.1mil skill point chars may be close, but the skills gained on one character are significantly more suited than the other, so the 2.1mil sp char has no chance from the word go. An arena cannot provide this 'fair' concept you think it does. Sure, sometimes it'll get it right. But most the time it won't, and will just become another rarely if ever used feature until its removed, see dojo's(Did those ever hit TQ and are they even still used?). This same phenomenon also completely mitigates any 'skillfullness' that may have been involved, in the majority of instances. In WoT, for example, it doesn't matter if I'm better than that guy in Tiger 2, if I get in that match in my M6. The Tiger is just a better tank in so many ways, and the M6 is largely too slow to avoid being shot. There are very few instances where this isn't the case.







No, how something has been doesn't mean that is how it always will be, but that doesn't mean it's not what it should be either. Eve is not marketed as Elite Dangerous, or World of Spaceships, or insert arena game that is limited in scale by virtue of being an arena game. Eve isn't those, and shouldn't be those. If you want those, please go play them. You're claiming 'logic' on an 12 year established history of what something is? Logically, Eve should be exactly what it is, which is the game that ISN'T like those other games. Until such time as CCP states otherwise, that is what it is, and when that changes, alot of people will leave. And no, most of them won't come back either. You are not in a position to suppose any logic on anything as far as Eve or its history or what it should be are. You can't get around the idea that you already have a huge plethora of tools to do this, how can you speak about any sort of logic? Join RVB. You don't need to roam. Undock, challenge to duel. You don't need to roam. Right click, war dec, come back tomorrow and undock and shoot. You don't need to roam. Undock, warp to FW plex, wait 5 mintues.
You don't need to roam, sit on Aufay/niarja/insert gate, wait 10 minutes, shoot all the gankers that warp to the gate to gank. You don't need to roam. Insert the many other ways you can find Easy PVP.

But again, you assume that an arena fixes everything, because you lack the ability to see. With ALL those tools, you are still here complaining about how you have no content. Let's say arena's hit tomorrow. You would be back in a month complaining about how you can't do anything for all the reasons you already can't, and because the guys in the arena's with their dual ASB breachers or dramiels or insert FoTM ship always kill you and you don't get enough rewards for trying so you feel bad about the game.



The problem here isn't the game, or content. The problem is quite clearly you.

what the hell are you whining on. damn I couldn't quote you all because you wrote so much nonense I'm had to delete some.so.I.can respond. also learn about paragraphs

do you actually have a clue what I am remotely suggesting here? this.doesn't not affect your game play at all.not.in the slightest so why are you so grumpy and annoying and angry?
honestly I'm going to be grumpy now because the negativity is just mind.boggling
don't like the idea the don't get involved. again this.doesn't.affect you go play your game how.you want don't tell everyone else that they should play YOUR game we want to play OUR game.

if your happy with your little system in cloud ring fine you run along ago play there...shoo just go...the idea is not to. change anything that's already there is just adding more features. you don't want to go into an arena then don't

but again I bet everyone who.is negative about it that if it did get implemented you would use it and love it

Le sigh. Again, wrong. Single Shard universe. All connected, repeat, droll, etc etc... You can have your game. Within the rules of Eve. If you're not wanting to play Eve... Don't play Eve. And Holy mother of Pearl that grammar.

And no... I promise you, I would not use it and would not love it.


Again. You can have your game. Within the rules of Eve. If it's not in those rules, find a different game.



@Dror

ha. That's the thing... the mindset of Eve has never been fairness. Ever.

And again, you're not in a position to get to claim what you feel is the relevant and irrelevant information, since you struggle to understand you already have all the tools at your disposal to do this and yet you are STILL here, decrying what you have as unfair and unusable.


Figured I'd try one more time with you two, but it clearly would take more than an industrial drill to get through to either of you.

@rek
Suspect makes sense with me. Sec status hit less so but I not completely opposed. Magical reimbursement of items if I interfere is a bit much. If I destroy their ships they get an insurance pay out anyways. If they get away, good for them.

@imyourmom
No one has a clue what youre suggesting. Your suggestion ended at arenas and you've left everyone else to pick up the pieces with guess work. The most fleshed out ideas here are from me and rek and they are just of the tops of our heads.

You are failing to grasp that other players are my content. Other players are my game. So although I may not have any interest in playing in your arenas, if my target, my content, goes into your arena and I cannot follow and/or break in, MY game is at a loss. MY game is broken.

The single most defining features of EVE is the single shard and open sandbox. No matter where you go, I can follow and I can interfere with your game. The exception being stations (until they flesh those out as well) which we all know have limited gameplay anyways.

Trying to understand why people are against the idea

All the cons are answered by the fact we have Alliance tourney should we ban this also ?

Nobody is wanting a 24/7 safe zone ....I believe all we want with this idea is somewhere for fun and to have our own AT with 100 ISk as top prize and to do what we like

This arena idea that you hate is designed run and endorsed by CCP this is just the same but for everyone not just the super duper elite

Edit - ofc mechanics/prizes/structure ofc can and should change based on feedback I just think it's a good idea if used correctly

Yes, its called WoT, and thats what happens there. You got an arena, you fight, then you get reimbursed.

That is not entirely true. PVP without effort is not what i want. I want a PVP option for people that don't have a lot of time, i want to create a showcase for PVP to help new players get into it and i want there to be an exclusionary free way for people to take part in a fair tournament without days/weeks of planning.

I had a friend that spend all his time running L4s for a year. I asked him why he didn't pvp and he said that every time went into low sec to look for a fight, he ran into a blob on a gate and was insta-poped, so he decided pvp wasn't for him. I took him out one day and showed him what he could do to avoid that and what targets he should be looking for... a year later and he's a solid PVPer who hasn't ran a level 4 since.

Effort? that's relative. Is camping a gate effort? is cynoing a blob onto a lone target effort? ...I bet a pvp arena would be far more challenging that 90% of the current battles in eve today.

At the end of the day if this feature resulted in more people playing, surely that is only a good thing. As certain percentage of those players would move on to real PVP, so everyone would benefit.

If you admit that this could grow the playerbase but you don't like this idea, do you have a better idea?

Please read my posts in this thread or the Save EVE for newbies thread, there are more than enough suggestions on what to do to improve the situation. These also include options for people with limited available time per day to play. I am not going to repeat them yet again.

To your 2 examples:

#1: A typical situation of a player without experience trying something, failing at it, failing to get proper counseling, not making any progress in improving the situation and thus abandoning the activity. As soon as he got access to the advice, the situation improved dramatically in a very short time, by the looks. It is not really the fault of the player failing at the activity, but the lack of knowledge and access to it that made his experience a bad one.

#2: It will also take away lots of people from the open PVP range and I have reasonable doubts (also as described before, I am not going to repeat myself) that this arena system will take more people out of the system than it encourages to put into (and who subsequently only turn back as there are not enough people to combat against or it takes too much time to find them outside arenas).
I do not see how setting up a gate camp (scouts, boosts, proper fleet composition, enough people, getting a suitable location, having intel on surrounding areas and activities, etc.) is less effort than pressing a button, waiting for a pairing, getting teleported and fight.

Maybe that's not obvious, because it's a fabricated implementation.

Solo PvP is a playstyle that thrives through limited corp activity and through other reasons. It's impertinent if subs that come for this feature only initially play because of it. If the demographic that unsubs, because of constraints, finds value with something that provides socialization and (thus) opportunities beyond the arena, that subset is obviously welcome.

In fact, the biggest problem with learning the game is how uninteresting it can seem having so little positive feedback on fits. It's not that the engagements are turning out poorly, it's that refitting and roaming is so much less provisional than why they're refitting. "They could probably try dozens of fits that are plausibly inaccurate. So why fit up more ships? Why not just train skills?" Wouldn't more action better reinforce initiative?