Player Features and Ideas Discussion

safe
a place where stuff cannot be dropped on you
no cloaky falcons or a remote chance to be blopped
a controlled environment with minimal influence from outside

Implementing game mechanics to restrict certain playstyles is the opposite of a sandbox

A little of something being good doesn't mean a lot of it is great, Mike.

Environmental effects don't restrict you from doing something. Mass limits don't keep you from building what you want and using it in a hole. Limited aggression rules are a bit stupid, and it would be better for the sandbox if we had the tools to create those restrictions in LS ourselves.

CCP has been supporting PvE/risk averse playstyles more and more as time goes on, and sub numbers have been falling. I'm still curious why the guy who hates PvP (and has zero PvP fights under his belt) is talking in this thread.

No, no it isn't...any mechanic restricting playstyles is by definition the opposite of a sandbox

By omission? No. That's not how things work. You have the ability to do 1v1 now. Look at the thunderdome matchups that have been put together.

...and a dreck load of out of game record keeping, huge overhead in terms of manpower, insufficient controls to create what is being asked for, basically the stuff ending RvB...

Or we could build on the toolset already developed for the tournaments, please those into this sort of thing, and maybe work in some benefits for the game as a whole while we are at it.

You being afraid of shadows on the wall should not stand in the way of making the game more fun. The desire for the feature is proven. The existence of the feature didn't end the game. Making it official doesn't have to be done in a stand alone fashion that excludes the rest of the world.

People not wanting to play with you is a problem with and for you.

It is not shadows of a wall that people are concerned about, it is clear and empirically proven evidence that speaks against the introduction of arenas into the game in order to facilitate PVP:

• The latest big alliance collapse (GClub) due to lack of people stepping up and being suitable to lead content creation for their alliance/coalition shows that people are only interested in consumption, not creation of activity. Arenas provide consumption, not creation of activity; henceforth, they would draw these masses out of the open world arenas (star systems, plexes, missions, gates) into these closed arenas simply because it requires a lot less effort to get PVP.
• The winding down of RVB is another example for the exact same issue. People flocked to them because they, or rather a small group of people, provided the activity for masses. Now that the small group can't do that anymore and no one suitable to succeed them, the entire operation comes to a halt because people do not want to bother with creating activity/maintaining the tools to create activity but merely want to consume it.
• CFC is another prime example for that issue. People do not flock to CFC because they are so friendly or lovely to their members, they flock to them because they provide secure, stable and safe content in the form of ratting and renting opportunities shielded from the adversaries that people would face had they to do it on their own in their own little Null sec pocket. Again, many people do not want to create their own activities/fortune any more, they just want to consume activity without having to do much to get it. The same goes for the DRF Russians and many of their renters. Legion provides them, too, with stability because they are at very amicable terms with CFC. And what happens when the renters try something on their own is well documented with Spears of Destiny, who recently grew exponentially, lacked organization and soon after collapsed as soon as some opposition showed up. Now, most of their corps are in a new alliance back under the protective umbrella of Legion.
• Your mentioned increase in ratting/mining to fuel the arena PVP money consumption and subsequent increase in open-world combat does not hold much value. If there are no people around to roam through space, any ratting/mining fleet anywhere is safe and can do their farming undisturbed. At first, most of the roaming around people will flock to these arenas simply because they do not want to play the game baltec and I want to play (not that I want to play his gamestyle either), because they do "not have the time to roam around just to find a rookie ship cyno", because they "do not have time to find PVP but also cannot be bothered to live in an area where lots of PVP is happening" or simply because it is too much effort. With these people gone, the people who actually do these things will find less and less targets, entering this viscous circle and soon have no real choice but to participate in and mess with arenas as well, removing even more people from the open world. Then, who in their right mind would bother with roaming around to look for targets if you do not even find a rookie ship cyno anymore because it is not necessary to deliver stuff around any longer or to look for a ratting/mining fleet that just docks up as soon as they see you coming? No one will.

There are more examples that show the exact same pattern over and over again.Were these arenas only allowed to be used for rare tournaments like the AT, there would not be any problem with them. But you, the OP, and Kenji Noguchi want to have these arenas as a staple available all day long, every day. I do not care about whether you do not want to see the evidence about the bad consequences for the game when it is shown to you, but your denying them does not make them go away.

Other games with arenas have many other differences from EVE than just lacking those arenas. You can tell nothing about the impact on EVE from those games. Even Everquest managed to keep open 3 seperate PvP ruleset servers despite arenas in every city and an entire zone sized arena. That playerbase was hardly the same one playing EVE. Your fact isn't a fact, it's just a fear created because you only allow fun for you and your buddies.

The desire for the feature is proven by the perennial nature of these threads, the popularity of the tournaments, and the existence of RvB and similar outfits throughout EVE. Just because there are few realistic options to achieve the goal presently does not mean people don't want it, and don't try to get it.

The feature isn't in game officially, but that snappy "make one" argument has been carried out before, and EVE didn't end.

So long as the arena is tied to the world to function, they will still have to deal with you, and you with them. Different areas with different rules do not make people safe, just differently vulnerable.

1. Unproven or supported point, though fairly obvious. Most people want to play a game, not pay to take on a second job. Some few do find that relaxing, but sometimes even softball leagues fold for a lack of coaches.

2. Yeah, they found it fun. Not enough chiefs, too many Indians. Might even lose some subscriptions over it due to lack of a good alternative and lack of desire for regular EVE 'content'.

3. Sounds like a lot of unhappy people fighting too much inertia at a time when the game is hemmoraging subscriptions. Making any sort of change to give them something more fun to do would be reccomended, not shouted down by a few toxic malcontents sick with worry over losing unwilling targets.

4. I would think at least 4 or 5 dudes on this thread alone would do their level best to hunt anyone supporting arenas to extinction. Sounds like content generation to me.

That was a whole lot of words to say you are afraid it will cost you targets. It's still not a good argument.

If you are that worried, get on out there and create some content fun for all parties instead of just consuming things yourself.