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Create Battle Arenas
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#281 - 2015-10-05 20:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Dror wrote:
The forum is a limited subset of the feature's demographic. Improving levels of gameplay and opportunities is the reason. What's the rebuttal?


Adding arenas doesn't improve gameplay. It gives people an easy way to get PvP without having to learn how to roam, how to find targets, and without giving people the risk of going up against someone in better/more powerful ships. They are inherently against the goals of EVE. Your idea does nothing but decrease opportunities for what EVE is intended to be: open world, non-consensual PvP.

Dror, how many tournaments have you tried to organize so far? How many people are in your in-game chat channel you use to organize those events? If the answer to those questions are both zero, you have no leg to stand on.

As with most of your threads, you don't quite seem to understand what game you are playing.



Eve is not intended to be non-consensual PVP.
It's a PVP centric game, in which non-consensual PVP is a part of.
This is another attempt at trying to make Eve what you want it to be.

Although, I might state that what you claim here -
Quote:
It gives people an easy way to get PvP without having to learn how to roam, how to find targets, and without giving people the risk of going up against someone in better/more powerful ships. They are inherently against the goals of EVE.


Is exactly what ganking in HS is, yet you agree with that..Sooo, yeah..


As far as players saying "Arenas don't belong in a sandbox." You're making a statement that represents YOU, and not Eve or a sandbox.
Last time I checked, earth and RL is a sandbox. We have football, futbol/soccer, hockey, cricket, rugby, and many other arena based activities.

As long as ship destruction is a requirement in order to win, this can only be good for Eve, as even if everyone only flies frigs, it's likely still more isk loss than would happen without it.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#282 - 2015-10-05 20:16:13 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Eve is not intended to be non-consensual PVP.
It's a PVP centric game, in which non-consensual PVP is a part of.
This is another attempt at trying to make Eve what you want it to be.


It is not intended to prevent anyone from being shot at any time. Dedicated arenas prevents those in it from being shot by anyone else. That is 100% against the design of the game.

Quote:
Is exactly what ganking in HS is, yet you agree with that..Sooo, yeah..


Since when were people being ganked not able to shoot back?


Quote:
As far as players saying "Arenas don't belong in a sandbox." You're making a statement that represents YOU, and not Eve or a sandbox.
Last time I checked, earth and RL is a sandbox. We have football, futbol/soccer, hockey, cricket, rugby, and many other arena based activities.

As long as ship destruction is a requirement in order to win, this can only be good for Eve, as even if everyone only flies frigs, it's likely still more isk loss than would happen without it.


Exactly my point. We have football/hockey/etc organized by people. That's why I said for people to organize their own arenas. So again, what is preventing you all from organizing your own arenas in low traffic, dead end systems today?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#283 - 2015-10-05 20:25:11 UTC
Dror wrote:
There's a neat analogy here: "You have to allow all gameplay without SP because some characters have more SP than others." How is a decent criticism that features, which aren't requested, would be required because other features are implemented? The point is if a feature idea is helpful and plausibly only helpful.. Saying that those features are required is nothing very logical.. it's hamfisting some sort of design philosophy where there is no need.

Improper analogy. SPs are available to all characters and apply equally to all styles of play. There's no preferential benefit to one style of play vs another.

The criticism is based on the fact that by introducing game mechanics to specifically benefit one style of gameplay, you'd have to introduce similar mechanics to provide a similar benefit to other styles of gameplay in order to maintain balance. By showing how ridiculous these mechanics becomes when applied to other styles of gameplay, it shows how they're not viable to be used at all by any of them.

Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Dror, how many tournaments have you tried to organize so far? How many people are in your in-game chat channel you use to organize those events? If the answer to those questions are both zero, you have no leg to stand on.

I too am curious about this. I've personally participated in several over the past year and they weren't that hard to organize. I highly suggest that you try organizing one using current game mechanics instead of advocating to having specialized mechanics that only serve a limited function added to the game.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#284 - 2015-10-05 20:27:06 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
So again, what is preventing you all from organizing your own arenas in low traffic, dead end systems today?

You don't even need low traffic, dead-end systems. You just need good bookmarks and a duel invitation. For the C&P Thunderdome, we had several matches in or adjacent to Amarr and to date have had zero outside interference in any of our matches.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2015-10-05 20:32:55 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
So again, what is preventing you all from organizing your own arenas in low traffic, dead end systems today?

You don't even need low traffic, dead-end systems. You just need good bookmarks and a duel invitation. For the C&P Thunderdome, we had several matches in or adjacent to Amarr and to date have had zero outside interference in any of our matches.


We already have an arena style aspect coming to Eve, in which players will be battling to be the emperor of Amarr (or whatever).

This is a controlled arena type event, in which that players are NOT in control and CANNOT interfere.

The same can be said for the alliance tournament.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#286 - 2015-10-05 20:41:42 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
You don't even need low traffic, dead-end systems. You just need good bookmarks and a duel invitation. For the C&P Thunderdome, we had several matches in or adjacent to Amarr and to date have had zero outside interference in any of our matches.


True. For me it's just "roll the holes and enjoy a few hours of safety"

Joe Risalo wrote:
The same can be said for the alliance tournament.


A once per year stand alone event is very different from "anyone, anytime, anywhere"
Amber Starview
Doomheim
#287 - 2015-10-05 22:38:48 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
You don't even need low traffic, dead-end systems. You just need good bookmarks and a duel invitation. For the C&P Thunderdome, we had several matches in or adjacent to Amarr and to date have had zero outside interference in any of our matches.


True. For me it's just "roll the holes and enjoy a few hours of safety"

Joe Risalo wrote:
The same can be said for the alliance tournament.


A once per year stand alone event is very different from "anyone, anytime, anywhere"


1 . How is arena anywhere ? Wth are you talking about it's a fixed arena
2 . How is it anyone ? Alliance tournament cannot fight anyone it's structured
3 . Being anytime is the point sheesh ...if I log in at dead o'clock I can find pvp not fly around for 2 hours

Please explain how you can make these Broad statements without reading the thread ?
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#288 - 2015-10-05 22:41:56 UTC
Amber Starview wrote:

1 . How is arena anywhere ? Wth are you talking about it's a fixed arena
2 . How is it anyone ? Alliance tournament cannot fight anyone it's structured
3 . Being anytime is the point sheesh ...if I log in at dead o'clock I can find pvp not fly around for 2 hours

Please explain how you can make these Broad statements without reading the thread ?


1. A fixed arena means people keep a JC there and shoot back when they want to PvP
2. the arena idea in this thread is anyone
3. You're looking in the wrong places. Fly solo into Provi and start shooting. You'll get a fight every day.

I read the thread. I think it is a bad idea. Me disagreeing doesn't automatically mean I didn't read.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#289 - 2015-10-05 22:46:55 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:
Absolutely. Let's rename a few ships while we're at it


Manticore to Rogue

Guardian to Priest

Golem to Warrior

Curse to Necromancer

Falcon to Wizard




This type of thinking....

Is exactly why Eve forums are so ******.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#290 - 2015-10-05 22:50:30 UTC
Phaade wrote:
This type of thinking....

Is exactly why Eve forums are so ******.


Fine, Pilgrim to Necromancer, not curse. Jesus. Picky people.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2015-10-05 23:11:09 UTC
I'm still of the opinion that arenas would be good for the game if implemented correctly, whether ccp agrees remains to be seen but they were developing something similar not too long ago.

With the upcoming launcher update giveing players easy access to the test server, people who want to set up pvp tournaments will find it a lot easier. However, this is non consequential pvp and it may take players away from the real game.

... I would guess that even the naysayers in this thread wouldn't want that so instead of claiming to be the voice of eve by saying things like "not being able to shoot people all the time isn't what eve is" (pos force fields, stations and cloaks say hi, bty) you should think more about how this could work and would be a benefit to the game.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#292 - 2015-10-06 03:04:35 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that arenas would be good for the game if implemented correctly, whether ccp agrees remains to be seen but they were developing something similar not too long ago.

With the upcoming launcher update giveing players easy access to the test server, people who want to set up pvp tournaments will find it a lot easier. However, this is non consequential pvp and it may take players away from the real game.

... I would guess that even the naysayers in this thread wouldn't want that so instead of claiming to be the voice of eve by saying things like "not being able to shoot people all the time isn't what eve is" (pos force fields, stations and cloaks say hi, bty) you should think more about how this could work and would be a benefit to the game.


It cant work and it would harm EVE if introduced just like every single game arenas have been added to.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#293 - 2015-10-06 03:53:29 UTC
Nothing died as a result of arenas. They died to poor development and reliance on PvP for content.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#294 - 2015-10-06 05:03:44 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that arenas would be good for the game if implemented correctly, whether ccp agrees remains to be seen but they were developing something similar not too long ago.

With the upcoming launcher update giveing players easy access to the test server, people who want to set up pvp tournaments will find it a lot easier. However, this is non consequential pvp and it may take players away from the real game.

... I would guess that even the naysayers in this thread wouldn't want that so instead of claiming to be the voice of eve by saying things like "not being able to shoot people all the time isn't what eve is" (pos force fields, stations and cloaks say hi, bty) you should think more about how this could work and would be a benefit to the game.


It cant work and it would harm EVE if introduced just like every single game arenas have been added to.


What games are you talking about? I have to disagree with your comment entirely. Although I understand what you're getting at but you're just scaremongering. It's like saying incursions will take PvP away or mission runners etc. It doesn't does it. In fact people.have alts and mains to do main PvP Corp stuff and alts do other stuff. What if your Corp isn't doing anything when you log I which is often the case for most people, what if having to roam 50 a systems and not even get a fight?
The arenas just allows you to.have that quick fun fix when things like this happen. I'm sorry but people are leaving in droves due to lack of finding PvP content so I am confused as to what PvP arenas would suck away.

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#295 - 2015-10-13 18:07:26 UTC
Thanks for all the responses for and against. Appreciated and nice to see a good honest debate (mostly)
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#296 - 2015-10-13 18:13:38 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
Its clear that many people dont have time to spend hours either roaming, waiting fleets etc, and have wanted no cried out for the ability for instant action, when all they may have is 30mins or an hour to play.

What about creating some kind of battle arena for players to go to, now i know it needs more thought especially where people will just gank others, just like the test server!

Perhaps make it concord moderated, with only people accepting combat through the option of duelling. I am not sure how you would do this with fleets, and im sorry I dont and havent thought out the solution for that. I am just thinking about the concept and hoping people wlll add to thread to post how this could be possible.

Perhaps people could win prizes etc to make it more interesting.


just wanted to UPDATE something

These arenas are different areas of space, like entering a wormhole or something. Its not arenas thats in current space. CCP would have to create the arena for people to go into. Did my post confuse people? If you think I meant still arena play in current systems, absolutely not. You would like jump through some womholes that lead to PVP Arenas.


Pointless. There is no need at all for such a service.

There is plenty of combat to be had if you don't a) hang around in highsec (no, ganking isn't combat, sorry) and b) make everyone for 20 jumps in any direction blue.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#297 - 2015-10-14 05:25:36 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:
ImYourMom wrote:
Its clear that many people dont have time to spend hours either roaming, waiting fleets etc, and have wanted no cried out for the ability for instant action, when all they may have is 30mins or an hour to play.

What about creating some kind of battle arena for players to go to, now i know it needs more thought especially where people will just gank others, just like the test server!

Perhaps make it concord moderated, with only people accepting combat through the option of duelling. I am not sure how you would do this with fleets, and im sorry I dont and havent thought out the solution for that. I am just thinking about the concept and hoping people wlll add to thread to post how this could be possible.

Perhaps people could win prizes etc to make it more interesting.


just wanted to UPDATE something

These arenas are different areas of space, like entering a wormhole or something. Its not arenas thats in current space. CCP would have to create the arena for people to go into. Did my post confuse people? If you think I meant still arena play in current systems, absolutely not. You would like jump through some womholes that lead to PVP Arenas.


Pointless. There is no need at all for such a service.

There is plenty of combat to be had if you don't a) hang around in highsec (no, ganking isn't combat, sorry) and b) make everyone for 20 jumps in any direction blue.




Sadly though all 3 of your points are the problem.again you're trying to force people to play YOUR game. You go off and do that and let other do what they want to.do. what's the difference of people hanging about in high sec than in nullsec? Nullsec is more carebear than high sec.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#298 - 2015-10-14 06:45:13 UTC
There's this 'thing', called a Dojo, that basically does what you want already.

Dunno if it's been rolled out on TQ yet though.

https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-veritas-parting-gift-dojo

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Mag's
Azn Empire
#299 - 2015-10-14 07:59:20 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
There's this 'thing', called a Dojo, that basically does what you want already.

Dunno if it's been rolled out on TQ yet though.

https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-veritas-parting-gift-dojo
Ahh yea that was a good troll, just before he left. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#300 - 2015-10-15 06:39:07 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
There's this 'thing', called a Dojo, that basically does what you want already.

Dunno if it's been rolled out on TQ yet though.

https://www.themittani.com/news/ccp-veritas-parting-gift-dojo
Ahh yea that was a good troll, just before he left. Lol


One hopes that other CCP developers will continue the work that CCP Veritas has begun and bring this promising gameplay addition to the rest of the community on Tranquility.

Guess they didn't?