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Create Battle Arenas
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#201 - 2015-10-04 00:28:51 UTC
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2015-10-04 14:30:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.


For example?

That's compete rubbish. Wow For example thrives very well on the battlegrounds. Baltec start moving away from old eve from 2005 because goons are the ones killing eve.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#203 - 2015-10-04 15:37:25 UTC
ImYourMom wrote:
its nice to see more people actually thinking about this, and offering support.
Everyone else, this isnt to replace any other mechanic, current pvp or anything, its just completely additional content to the sandbox. You enter the arena or you dont. It just adds more content and i bet more excitement to the game when things are quiet or you just want to get on shoot something and log out.

I think this would keep a lot of players from leaving by having something to stop the boredom. I hope CCP considers this.


And thats absolutely fine if I can break in and make my presence felt like bane and Gothams football stadium.
If I cant then you are not adding to the sandbox, you are only taking away.

People enjoyed the game more when there was more ways to mess with eachother. They didnt get bored easily when it wasnt so easy to isolate yourself.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#204 - 2015-10-04 15:46:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.


Exactly this.

"Arenas" are the single worst idea to ever be posted on this forum. It is the most anti sandbox mechanic possible.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#205 - 2015-10-04 20:22:54 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.


For example?

That's compete rubbish. Wow For example thrives very well on the battlegrounds. Baltec start moving away from old eve from 2005 because goons are the ones killing eve.


SWG for starters, it took one day for the new arena to kill all the pvp outside of it.
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#206 - 2015-10-04 21:04:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
WhyTry1 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.


For example?

That's compete rubbish. Wow For example thrives very well on the battlegrounds. Baltec start moving away from old eve from 2005 because goons are the ones killing eve.


SWG for starters, it took one day for the new arena to kill all the pvp outside of it.


Youre seriously quoting SWG? that was a disaster full stop. Nothing to do with arenas...
WhyTry1
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#207 - 2015-10-04 21:05:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Every game that had open world PvP and added an arena has seen the open world PvP vanish. Arenas will always suck the life out of PvP everywhere else outside of them.


Exactly this.

"Arenas" are the single worst idea to ever be posted on this forum. It is the most anti sandbox mechanic possible.


What do you mean anti sandbox? there is not ANTI sandbox because sandbox is about doing anything you want within a game. Youre now saying that the sandbox has limits? But what you are actually saying is it doesnt fit with your sandbox.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#208 - 2015-10-04 21:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
WhyTry1 wrote:


Youre seriously quoting SWG? that was a disaster full stop. Nothing to do with arenas...


It was a disaster when they gutted the game and added an arena which is what killed the pvp. You had the exact same thing happen with the space section, all the pvp happened in the arena (deep space zone) not outside of it and that was long before the NGE happened when the game was popular.

You get the exact same story with every single MMO with an arena, people go for the instant pvp it offers and all other pvp suffers outside of the arena.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#209 - 2015-10-04 21:22:52 UTC
WhyTry1 wrote:

What do you mean anti sandbox?


I mean it's an immersion breaking, binary mechanic used to isolate people from the rest of the gameworld.

That runs counter to the entire premise of a sandbox game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2015-10-04 21:25:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
WhyTry1 wrote:


Youre seriously quoting SWG? that was a disaster full stop. Nothing to do with arenas...


It was a disaster when they gutted the game and added an arena which is what killed the pvp. You had the exact same thing happen with the space section, all the pvp happened in the arena (deep space zone) not outside of it and that was long before the NGE happened when the game was popular.

You get the exact same story with every single MMO with an arena, people go for the instant pvp it offers and all other pvp suffers outside of the arena.

Making this basically impossible is limiting the arena to something like 3 entries per character, per X.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#211 - 2015-10-04 21:46:59 UTC
Dror wrote:

Making this basically impossible is limiting the arena to something like 3 entries per character, per X.


If you have to put heavy limitations on something you have already lost the argument.

Arenas are simply not compatible with games like EVE.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2015-10-04 22:02:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dror wrote:

Making this basically impossible is limiting the arena to something like 3 entries per character, per X.


If you have to put heavy limitations on something you have already lost the argument.

Arenas are simply not compatible with games like EVE.

"If you have to put heavy limitations on idea possibilities for a sandbox.. or put limitations on a discussion based on the idea of scarcity --"

Neither of these are logical progression of, "A major gaming demographic enjoys arenas, and the idea could improve the competitive scene (another major gaming trend with plenty of advertising potential)". I get that it's odd trying to discuss "innovations", but the benefits of an arena (especially with compromises) completely exceed the "git gud" stereotypical reply. If fresh subs or of liveplays or whatever were interested in roaming, but for plausibly nothing, that's an immense deterrent for those niches.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#213 - 2015-10-04 22:08:13 UTC
Dror wrote:

"If you have to put heavy limitations on idea possibilities for a sandbox.. or put limitations on a discussion based on the idea of scarcity --"

Neither of these are logical progression of, "A major gaming demographic enjoys arenas, and the idea could improve the competitive scene (another major gaming trend with plenty of advertising potential)". I get that it's odd trying to discuss "innovations", but the benefits of an arena (especially with compromises) completely exceed the "git gud" stereotypical reply. If fresh subs or of liveplays or whatever were interested in roaming, but for plausibly nothing, that's an immense deterrent for those niches.


There is nothing innovative about arenas and they would not improve EVE, they would greatly harm the game. Give people instant action with fair odds garenteed and they will flock to it. The more that use arenas the fewer there are out in the open world so more go to arenas and very quickly all the pvp is found only in the arena.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2015-10-04 22:11:52 UTC
In bold:

baltec1 wrote:
Dror wrote:

"If you have to put heavy limitations on idea possibilities for a sandbox.. or put limitations on a discussion based on the idea of scarcity --"

Neither of these are logical progression of, "A major gaming demographic enjoys arenas, and the idea could improve the competitive scene (another major gaming trend with plenty of advertising potential)". I get that it's odd trying to discuss "innovations", but the benefits of an arena (especially with compromises) completely exceed the "git gud" stereotypical reply. If fresh subs or of liveplays or whatever were interested in roaming, but for plausibly nothing, that's an immense deterrent for those niches.


There is nothing innovative about arenas and they would not improve EVE, they would greatly harm the game.

Black and white fallacy.

Give people instant action with fair odds garenteed and they will flock to it. The more that use arenas the fewer there are out in the open world so more go to arenas and very quickly all the pvp is found only in the arena.

Slippery slope fallacy. Also, there's already been a fix for this possibility mentioned.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#215 - 2015-10-04 22:25:40 UTC
That's not a slippery slope fallacy. It's only a fallacy if it's not true, and this is a historical guarantee.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2015-10-04 22:28:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
That's not a slippery slope fallacy. It's only a fallacy if it's not true, and this is a historical guarantee.

Beyond fixes already mentioned, what if there was a steep entry fee? That can even include a very limited resource that's a freeroam content generator.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#217 - 2015-10-04 22:31:48 UTC
Dror wrote:

Beyond fixes already mentioned, what if there was a steep entry fee? That can even include a very limited resource that's a freeroam content generator.


And we are back to if you have to put in heavy limitations you have lost the argument.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2015-10-04 22:36:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dror wrote:

Beyond fixes already mentioned, what if there was a steep entry fee? That can even include a very limited resource that's a freeroam content generator.


And we are back to if you have to put in heavy limitations you have lost the argument.

Then, you've lost the subs that would pay because of that feature set -- that competitive scene -- that advertising? What sort of logic is that? Those all seem very win.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#219 - 2015-10-04 23:13:02 UTC
Dror wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dror wrote:

Beyond fixes already mentioned, what if there was a steep entry fee? That can even include a very limited resource that's a freeroam content generator.


And we are back to if you have to put in heavy limitations you have lost the argument.

Then, you've lost the subs that would pay because of that feature set -- that competitive scene -- that advertising? What sort of logic is that? Those all seem very win.


Throwing away the core principles of your game in order to chase purely theoretical players is exactly the mistake that Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies made.

And it's exactly the mistake you are asking EVE Online to make.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2015-10-04 23:25:00 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dror wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dror wrote:

Beyond fixes already mentioned, what if there was a steep entry fee? That can even include a very limited resource that's a freeroam content generator.


And we are back to if you have to put in heavy limitations you have lost the argument.

Then, you've lost the subs that would pay because of that feature set -- that competitive scene -- that advertising? What sort of logic is that? Those all seem very win.


Throwing away the core principles of your game..

Melodrama.

.. in order to chase purely theoretical players..

it's called satisfying trends.

"seems invalid".

Why?



"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.