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Drifter Discussion: In Search of Answers
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Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#21 - 2015-09-15 06:51:24 UTC
Ferrucio Surge wrote:

If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.


Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well.

As for the rest, remember that the appearance of the Vigilant Tyrannos was presaged by the Sisters of EVE announcing a change in Sleeper drone behavior, and then Caroline's Star. Caroline's Star is presumably tied with the shattered systems and Thera, where we find evidence of extensive Sleeper infrastructure; what's more, we also find a constellation under Sansha dominion, and signs of supercarriers lost in fighting the Sleepers.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Rauour Engil
Rabies Inc.
#22 - 2015-09-15 10:12:38 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Ferrucio Surge wrote:

If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.


Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well.

As for the rest, remember that the appearance of the Vigilant Tyrannos was presaged by the Sisters of EVE announcing a change in Sleeper drone behavior, and then Caroline's Star. Caroline's Star is presumably tied with the shattered systems and Thera, where we find evidence of extensive Sleeper infrastructure; what's more, we also find a constellation under Sansha dominion, and signs of supercarriers lost in fighting the Sleepers.

The Sansha connection is interesting isn't it? So, was it Nation that got there first, stole a range of technology (worm hole creation and management for a start), and kicked what's turned out to be a hornets nest? Or, was it Jamly with her crazy weapons technology that destroyed the elder fleet? Certainly the new shielding and Entosis technology appears to have been the last straw.

Also I wonder if it's not just us and the Jove that have/had factions. The sleepers and drifters appear to be somewhat different in their demeanor. I wish we could get some intelligence from inside Nation. SoE suggested that Jamly represented a existential threat, what's their view of the drifters and nation? Anyone know?

It's bad enough that Nation has kidnapped and done god only knows what to so many with their slave implants but I think we're lucky the drifters only appear to be after Capsuleers, if that changes.....
Ferrucio Surge
The Bag Cartel
#23 - 2015-09-15 22:26:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ferrucio Surge
Makoto Priano wrote:
Ferrucio Surge wrote:

If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.


Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well.

That's not the point I'm getting at. If they were to ask us to stop, and we refused, would that not be a good reason to respond with force? My point is there seems to be no explicit motive, and it would be easier to understand their intent if we were explicitly in the wrong, in violation of their request. Understanding someone's demands is a crucial first step to diplomacy. I don't know if diplomacy is possible, but until we know exactly what they're after, I would rather leave that door open.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-16 03:28:14 UTC
Ferrucio Surge wrote:
That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something?

Biological material consists of already constructed nanofactories, that are way more flexible and self-sustaining compared to robotic bodies. Take for example cyberenhanced limb. You can make it way stronger than human biological arm, but you won't be able to get same degree of precision, speed and sensitivity. The Maker knows its craft.

As for biomaterial retrieval, you need way greater energy to construct it from mineral components, because even living cells, that construct it, consume energy. Lifting biomaterial from the planet requires energy as well, for you need to overcome the gravity well and atmosphere. Picking out floating biomaterial from space looks way more efficient.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-09-16 07:42:18 UTC
Ferrucio Surge wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Ferrucio Surge wrote:

If they didn't like us messing with the Sleepers in Wormhole space, I don't see why it wouldn't have been easier to just tell us instead of just lashing out.


Because asking Capsuleers to not do something works so wonderfully well.

That's not the point I'm getting at. If they were to ask us to stop, and we refused, would that not be a good reason to respond with force? My point is there seems to be no explicit motive, and it would be easier to understand their intent if we were explicitly in the wrong, in violation of their request. Understanding someone's demands is a crucial first step to diplomacy. I don't know if diplomacy is possible, but until we know exactly what they're after, I would rather leave that door open.


Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them.
Ferrucio Surge
The Bag Cartel
#26 - 2015-09-16 08:28:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Ferrucio Surge wrote:
That's true, they don't. Biomass is one good reason to harvest dead bodies. So, perhaps they're doing it to reproduce? But again, why go through the trouble of adapting mortal bodies to their specifications instead of just building robots to put their infomorphs in, or something?

Biological material consists of already constructed nanofactories, that are way more flexible and self-sustaining compared to robotic bodies. Take for example cyberenhanced limb. You can make it way stronger than human biological arm, but you won't be able to get same degree of precision, speed and sensitivity. The Maker knows its craft.

As for biomaterial retrieval, you need way greater energy to construct it from mineral components, because even living cells, that construct it, consume energy. Lifting biomaterial from the planet requires energy as well, for you need to overcome the gravity well and atmosphere. Picking out floating biomaterial from space looks way more efficient.



Makes sense from a utilitarian perspective.

Quote:
Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them.


I admit that's possible, but would it really be that hard for such an advanced society to find some method of communication, especially if they interface with our technology, already?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-16 10:16:40 UTC
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one.
Sometimes - not.
But bringing in hypotheses for more complex explanation without exact evidences would smell like "conspiracy theory" and other incompetent ideas.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#28 - 2015-09-16 17:48:56 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Perhaps they have tried to communicate with us already in a way we simply don't understand. It would be arrogant of us to think that they should be able to communicate with us even if we don't know how to communicate with them.


They do communicate with us already. They generate CONCORD-compliant identification codes. CONCORD didn't assign the names 'Apollo Tyrannos' and 'Artemis Tyrannos' to these things. They did.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-09-16 19:21:57 UTC
My personal beliefs is we have mis-applied our society for theres.

Look closely at how they operate. The seeker ships are leading, they are being inquisitive. Imagine how much processing power is in such a ship that does not need to devote massive amounts of space and energy to resource. We know it isn't to weapons and performance.

Then there are the drifter ships. Pure war... and harvested bodies.

I am firm in my belief that the drifters are nothing more than what we consider drones. Self repairing and plentiful. The Seekers are most likely the controllers. Mass produced and expendable. A circuit control needs multiple backups and redundancies in case of even the most minor damage. A living being though... can destroy walls, and they can go around. Can be killed and any other can take it's place. The brain allows extremely adaptable and logical thought.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Ferrucio Surge
The Bag Cartel
#30 - 2015-09-21 06:16:34 UTC
I'm not so sure. It seems to me as though the Seekers are the Scouts, capable of doing significant damage actually. Their society seems more to me like something close to a hive-mind structure, with precise coordination oftentimes
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-09-21 09:45:46 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
My personal beliefs is we have mis-applied our society for theres.

Look closely at how they operate. The seeker ships are leading, they are being inquisitive. Imagine how much processing power is in such a ship that does not need to devote massive amounts of space and energy to resource. We know it isn't to weapons and performance.

Then there are the drifter ships. Pure war... and harvested bodies.

I am firm in my belief that the drifters are nothing more than what we consider drones. Self repairing and plentiful. The Seekers are most likely the controllers. Mass produced and expendable. A circuit control needs multiple backups and redundancies in case of even the most minor damage. A living being though... can destroy walls, and they can go around. Can be killed and any other can take it's place. The brain allows extremely adaptable and logical thought.


Hmmm...perhaps these are not biological living beings at all but rather an evolution of the sleeper drones. They've been left out patrolling space for so long by themselves it would only take one glitch to open up new processing pathways and allow learning. They may be using harvested corpses simply because the old sleeper hardware they had lay around relied on a 'living' being to pilot them as a security measure. The Tyrannos that we've encountered so far could be nothing more than puppets used as a biological nterface for a machine mind.
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