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RattleSnake Mission running and WH perhaps
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Xorce

Old Core X

Likes received: 2

#1 - 2015-09-13 16:07:44 UTC

Hello,
I have been browsing alot for setups and fittings i just bought the Rattlesnake and would like to have some input on my fitting i made before going all out. Can this be improved, i do feel a little bit its not 100% cap stabile but i dont want to put some caps in lows and make shield out put lower. Also i did notice that i can only use 1 Gecko :( there is nothing that can be done there?

[Rattlesnake, Xorce's Rattlesnake]
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
'Pandemonium' Ballistic Enhancement
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Small I-ax Remote Armor Repairer

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Gecko x2
Hornet EC-300 x5
Berserker II x2

Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x3000
Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x2896
Guristas Inferno Heavy Missile x1870
Guristas Scourge Heavy Missile x2190

Regards
X

Market McSelling Alt

Doomheim

Likes received: 797

#2 - 2015-09-13 17:38:50 UTC

In WH fits I like to go passive, for obvious reasons.

For Mission fits I like to go DPS, for obvious reasons.

This is kinda in the middle. I would recommend a little bling and get Cal Navy BCS. Not sure why the Shadow Serp MWD, the Core C type is cheap enough or just T1 is fine. Shield amp, again go Deadspace or go T1.

Well, the biggest problem I guess is the glaring EM hole, and the fact that you spent a buttload on some things and skimped way out on others.

This is my first attempt at a serious post in a while, so bear with me Bear

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.


Xorce Old Core X Likes received: 2	#3 - 2015-09-13 18:59:20 UTC Hi Bernie, Thanks for input, i got the Navy BCS as suggested ! Is there anything else you feel i skimped out on ? :P Could you post your fittings you use for both passive and dps ? Would be fun to see :)

Arthur Aihaken

CODE.d

Likes received: 6,149

#4 - 2015-09-13 19:23:36 UTC | Edited by: Arthur Aihaken

Xorce wrote:

[Rattlesnake, Xorce's Rattlesnake]
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Small I-ax Remote Armor Repairer

It's not worth the ISK premium for marginal gains over the T2 versions.
Addenum: I forgot to mention to ditch the small remote armor repairer in favour of a T2 drone link augmentor to increase your drone range. Also, the T2 omnidirectional tracking enhancer won't be enough to allow your Geckos to hit frigates (you need a tracking speed-scripted omnidirectional tracking link).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Market McSelling Alt

Doomheim

Likes received: 797

#5 - 2015-09-13 19:25:47 UTC

Xorce wrote:

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for input, i got the Navy BCS as suggested !

Is there anything else you feel i skimped out on ? :P

Could you post your fittings you use for both passive and dps ?
Would be fun to see :)

Starting with the CN BCS
Also drop flux coil for another DDA (consider faction here too)
Shadow Serp MWD -> Core C-Type
DG SBA - > Pith B-Type
Adaptivex2 -> 1 Pith C-Ctype Adaptive
Add EM Hardner
Cap Recharger??? ok, I guess cap is important to you
Why not T2 Rigs? but honestly why not Shield cap safeguards?

You drop the Geckos and go 2x sentries. Seriously pick Sentry+MJD or Gecko + No MJD

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.


Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#6 - 2015-09-13 19:32:36 UTC \| Edited by: Arthur Aihaken 1 Depending on your application (mission or WH), you're going to be looking at two radically different fits. Mission rats don't generally neut you out - but Sleepers most definitely will. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Xorce

Old Core X

Likes received: 2

#7 - 2015-09-13 20:16:54 UTC

Think i will focus on Missions first until i get the hang of the ship.

Starting with the CN BCS

Also drop flux coil for another DDA (consider faction here too)
*Changed!

Shadow Serp MWD -> Core C-Type
*Think ill leave it as is for now - expensive not much change in stats

DG SBA - > Pith B-Type
*Changed !

Adaptivex2 -> 1 Pith C-Ctype Adaptive
*You are right with penalty it seems 1 pcs of pith adds up 2 pcs of adapT2 :) will change this

Add EM Hardner
*added for freed slot from above

Cap Recharger??? ok, I guess cap is important to you
* will see :)

Why not T2 Rigs? but honestly why not Shield cap safeguards?
*Shield cap safeguards? are u refering to Large core defense capacitor safeguard?
*3 pcs of above to replace my large cap control circ?

You drop the Geckos and go 2x sentries. Seriously pick Sentry+MJD or Gecko + No MJD
was thinking if i use sentries the range of heavy missile launchers isnt that far i guess.. also i wanted to have some boat that can jump in the fight and go close-mid range :D whats your expereince of this )

The Bigpuns

United Standings Improvement Agency

Likes received: 253

#8 - 2015-09-13 22:03:27 UTC

Sorry not in eft format, not at pooter:

5 x t2 cruise
t2 dla

Pith c type lsb
2 x invulnerable ii
Sebo
Mjd
2 x otl

3 x fn dda
2 x cn bcs
Dcu ii

Drone control range Aug ii
2 x rigor i

Drones, missiles and scripts as per mission. swap an invuln for em hardener if appropriate, but it's udually not needed.

Drop the dcu for another bcs if you're not worried about ganks.

Not suitable for wh's.

Chainsaw Plankton

FaDoyToy

Likes received: 3,263

#9 - 2015-09-13 22:53:23 UTC

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Starting with the CN BCS
Also drop flux coil for another DDA (consider faction here too)
Shadow Serp MWD -> Core C-Type
DG SBA - > Pith B-Type
Adaptivex2 -> 1 Pith C-Ctype Adaptive
Add EM Hardner
Cap Recharger??? ok, I guess cap is important to youd
Why not T2 Rigs? but honestly why not Shield cap safeguards?

You drop the Geckos and go 2x sentries. Seriously pick Sentry+MJD or Gecko + No MJD

go officer or go home! Roll

this is for missions, going to have to ask someone else for wormhole stuff.
Low slots, all damage mods. I suppose the other option would be 4x damage mods and 2x nanos, as the rattler is seriously slow, and has awful agility, plus it looks like some fits are rather tight on cpu and that should let you use cpu elsewhere.

Mid slots: seriously, the rattlesnake has a resist bonus and huge dps, it almost doesn't need a tank. I go with a 3-4 slot with either a burst tank, or a pithum shield booster. MWD or a MJD is nice to have, although some missions you can just fit for all gank and ignore a prop mod. rest of the slots for omnidirectional tracking enhancers, or target painters.

high slots, I'd say cruise or rhml, and a drone link augmentor. having 80km range is important for sentries. Cruise have pretty nice damage and short reload. With rigors and a painter the application isn't too bad either. The RHMLs have great burst dps and better application, but that long reload.

Rigs, I go with rigors and flares, not sure what the best combo is as there were a few changes. Might make sense to go with RHMLs and fit warp speed rigs? I haven't tried it.

as far as the drone bay goes I'd say 1x gecko, 2x garde, 2x damage specific sentries, and then you have room for either a back up sentry or 5x light drones if you run into something your gecko can't hit. note the light drones don't get a damage bonus, but they should do alright damage due to 3x drone damage amps. Sentries do instant damage at range, the gecko is pretty awesome, but it is still slow and has to travel between targets. it works great for brawl missions

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

The DARK TROJANS 26
atomic killer The DARK TROJANS Likes received: 26	#10 - 2015-09-14 08:44:18 UTC 2 Don't use dead space modules in WH. You will get killed sooner or later. Use T2 passive fit.

Donnachadh

United Allegiance of Undesirables

Likes received: 1,313

#11 - 2015-09-14 14:47:48 UTC

All good so far just a few thoughts to add.

Go with the Missile Giudance Computer with precision script instead of a target painter. You loose a little on the signature resolution portion of the damage formula but make it up in smaller explosion radius and increased explosion velocity and they are not affected by range. And the explosion velocity increase often makes them a better choice against small faster targets which is a place where the cruise and heavy missiles always struggle.

Given that the Rattle only has band width for a single Gecko I question there worth in a mission ship.
Gecko are fast but sentries are even faster since they have no travel time at all.
Against frigates and destroyers the lights are a better option anyway due to their greater orbit speed and their guns are better suited to hitting these smaller targets.
For the cruiser mediums will give better damage application than the Gecko but not significantly.
Another aspect to the Gecko to consider is they are omni damage and for missions you know where the resist holes are for the NPC this often makes the damage specific aspect of the lights, mediums and sentries a better choice with better damage application.
Cost is another factor that argues against the use of the Gecko considering they have topped 100 million ISK each.

Viziam Amarr Empire 853
Celthric Kanerian Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 853	#12 - 2015-09-14 15:07:00 UTC With good skills, you should easily be bringing in around 1400 dps... (missiles + drone)

Xorce

Old Core X

Likes received: 2

#13 - 2015-09-14 19:56:25 UTC

Thanks for all advices.. Im playingaround to build an optimal relaxing mission lv4 boat ..pretty fun and its working pretty good

Below my current fit .. im struggling a bit with what to put in empty mid slot i removed the large micro jump drive since i never use it and was thinking either some cap or more shield resist.. i currently have Thermal res 85%and kinetic at 80% .. perhaps a shield extender ?

I have left 69 cpu / 6970 grid any advice the heavy nos in high im trying out with for close range but i can remove it

[Rattlesnake, Restless]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
[Empty Med slot]
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Gecko x1
Hornet EC-300 x5
Berserker II x4

Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x3780
Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x3658
Guristas Inferno Heavy Missile x2790
Guristas Scourge Heavy Missile x3000

atomic killer

The DARK TROJANS

Likes received: 26

#14 - 2015-09-15 00:00:12 UTC | Edited by: atomic killer

Xorce wrote:

I wouldn't use your fit for several reasons (for lvl4 obviously). First of all don't use CN ballistics, they don't add that much DPS, but the more faction mods you will use, the more attractive target for gank squad you will become. Use only realy necessary faction mods, such as maybe shield booster or hardeners. For this reason I wouldn't use DG launchers. T2 launchers take only 11 days to train for.

I was using this fit:

[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake LvL 4 fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster
Gist B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Domination 100MN Afterburner
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Always use mission specific hardeners, it' s not worth using 350 millions invulnerability field. You don't need NOS, because this fit is cap stable. Fit drone link augmentor. Hardeners here for Guristas mission (if you don't know what to tank, use google search).

About mission, warp in, drop sentries and kill all incoming frigs and cruisers, then switch to heavy drones. Alternative fit is less tank, MJD, sentrys + cruise missiles, but I don't like it.

Chainsaw Plankton

FaDoyToy

Likes received: 3,263

#15 - 2015-09-15 01:17:19 UTC

atomic killer wrote:

I almost agree... just pimp the gank t2 the tank. Faction damage mods do give a nice damage increase, they are very much worth fitting. as far as resist mods go, I prefer invluns, just because I don't have to change them each mission. Plus the rattlesnake has a resist bonus so it gets a huge tank with pretty much whatever. Also this doesn't leave a huge resist hole so you are harder to gank.

oh and only drop heavy drones if you are in brawl range. lose too much dps to travel time.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Donnachadh

United Allegiance of Undesirables

Likes received: 1,313

#16 - 2015-09-15 14:17:29 UTC

Xorce wrote:

Gecko x1
Hornet EC-300 x5
Berserker II x4

Even with changing these to mission specific I am not a fan of your drones load out and offer the following suggestions for your consideration.

Lights - either go missions specific or use Hobgoblin II.
In missions there is never a speed issue and the Hobgoblins greater damage multiplier combined with thermal damage makes them a better choice for a one size fits all application. Thermal is a secondary resist hole for most of the NPC.

Mediums - Use instead of the Gecko.
Go mission specific here. The Gecko is omni damage and given an all drones skills 5 piltot and 3 T2 DDA they get about 730 DPS which looks good on paper. Averaged across the resist profiles for all NPC only about 1/3rd of that DPS shoots into the resist holes which drops effective DPS to about 240. Mission specific mediums on the other hand will give you about that same effective DPS level and they are faster in warp and more importantly in orbit speed usually giving them better damage application.
To be honest I never carry mediums anyway, I find that by time I get done with the sentries the lights are a better choive for anything that is left over so I use this bay space for medium armor maint bots to repair damage to drones if needed.
A friend carries a few spare drones in this space.
A corp mate ECM drones.

No heavies - use endtries.

Sentries - 2x Garde II plus 2 missions specific. If Garde are the mission specific then take either Wardens or Bouncers depending on the secondary resist hole. Or just take Warden for range.
More flexibility in applying them to targets when compared to the slow moving heavies.
Can easily be used on anything and everything at ranges over 30k.
What they give up in DPS they easily make up for in range when compared to heavies. Garde are good to about 40k to 45k, the Curators are good to about 60k the others will reach 80k or more.
Even at ranges as close as 10k - 15k the Garde can easily track anything cruiser and above and they can easily hit battle ships that are playing bump games with your hull.

Xorce

Old Core X

Likes received: 2

#17 - 2015-09-15 18:09:01 UTC

Thanks again for all tips and ideas !

Donnachadh : changed the drones going to try these out :) but it will still be close range battle well around 50k-70k i usually go in and then keep distance . wonder how it will be with the sentries beeing none moving .. how do you handle that ?

Its fun to read up on any thought and try it out :)

My current fitting below, still changing around abit not really certain about the Medium Dim and the extra boost amplifier, its still working though no problems but perhaps i havent run into the toughest lv4 missions yet?

Any further ideas to improve the fitting ? :) Its been going really well with ideas so far thanks again !

[Rattlesnake, Restless]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II

Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Dread Guristas Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher
Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5
Federation Navy Garde x4
Caldari Navy Warden x2

Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x3680
Scourge Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I x3658
Guristas Inferno Heavy Missile x2740
Guristas Scourge Heavy Missile x3795

Chainsaw Plankton

FaDoyToy

Likes received: 3,263

#18 - 2015-09-15 18:39:39 UTC

Donnachadh wrote:

Mediums - Use instead of the Gecko.
Go mission specific here. The Gecko is omni damage and given an all drones skills 5 piltot and 3 T2 DDA they get about 730 DPS which looks good on paper. Averaged across the resist profiles for all NPC only about 1/3rd of that DPS shoots into the resist holes which drops effective DPS to about 240. Mission specific mediums on the other hand will give you about that same effective DPS level and they are faster in warp and more importantly in orbit speed usually giving them better damage application.
To be honest I never carry mediums anyway, I find that by time I get done with the sentries the lights are a better choive for anything that is left over so I use this bay space for medium armor maint bots to repair damage to drones if needed.
A friend carries a few spare drones in this space.
A corp mate ECM drones.

No heavies - use endtries.

Sentries - 2x Garde II plus 2 missions specific. If Garde are the mission specific then take either Wardens or Bouncers depending on the secondary resist hole. Or just take Warden for range.
More flexibility in applying them to targets when compared to the slow moving heavies.
Can easily be used on anything and everything at ranges over 30k.
What they give up in DPS they easily make up for in range when compared to heavies. Garde are good to about 40k to 45k, the Curators are good to about 60k the others will reach 80k or more.
Even at ranges as close as 10k - 15k the Garde can easily track anything cruiser and above and they can easily hit battle ships that are playing bump games with your hull.

what

like let me read that again... nope, still what Shocked

forgive the quick and dirty but I'd rather have a gecko than mediums any day http://i.imgur.com/gm5moar.png if there are any npcs this doesn't hold true for please do let me know.

A gecko just does so much damage, and npcs don't really have all that great of resists, it is worth using over mediums. dividing it's damage by 3 it still beats out medium drones, as you never included any resists for them. Even if, as you say, effective dps from a gecko of 240, vs 251 on a hammerhead before resists, almost not even a challenge. Oh and the gecko has better tracking than hammerhead IIs or Vespa IIs. and with the longer orbit radius and range that should make effective tracking even better.

with tracking speed scripts I'm pretty sure the gecko volleys frigs. been a while since I've used it, might be 2 shot. Might have even been with optimal scripts. The way drone mwd speed, orbit speed, range, and tracking interact can create some wonky results.

maybe in a domi or ishtar where the drone bonus applies to mediums it might make sense, but a rattlesnake gecko, no way!

at least the part about the sentries is mostly right.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Chainsaw Plankton

FaDoyToy

Likes received: 3,263

#19 - 2015-09-15 18:49:06 UTC

Xorce wrote:

when I have sentries out, since they don't move, I don't move. For most missions this works out pretty well, but in some it is rather annoying. That is where I like having the gecko, so you can launch that have it go after close targets while you move to where you need to be.

so my drone bay would look like

1x gecko
2x garde
2x warden
5x lights

As for the rest of the fit, The main change I'd make is change that medium nos to a Drone link augmentor, sentries have a lot of range, being able to use it is nice. Everything should work for now, but as you get comfortable with all the missions I'd start removing some tank mods, and fitting more application mods. Mostly Omnidirectional tracking links, and maybe a target painter or two.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter


Arthur Aihaken CODE.d Likes received: 6,149	#20 - 2015-09-15 23:19:34 UTC \| Edited by: Arthur Aihaken Chainsaw Plankton wrote: with tracking speed scripts I'm pretty sure the gecko volleys frigs. Let's put it this way: Without a tracking speed script, Geckos will miss most frigates the majority of the time. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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Missions & Complexes

Old Core X

Doomheim

CODE.d

United Standings Improvement Agency

FaDoyToy

The DARK TROJANS

United Allegiance of Undesirables

Viziam

Amarr Empire