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Dev Blog: Next set of Sov and Capital Movement Iterations

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-09-11 23:09:55 UTC
afkalt wrote:
It dimishes the commitment to living in space, you have a greatly reduced need for real pilots in space when a fleet can be formed based on intel alts x jumps out knowing full well you can block and hide behind anchorables- - the enemy can't move quickly.

Don't mistake me, I may be an alt, but I live in WH are we are facing far greater problems than null will with these mechanics come citadels:

You currently need needed an entosis alt/system, we will need an alt/structure and "living" out of our space is impossible by comparison as anomalies do not work the same way.

So that said, I have sympathy with the complaints - which is why I suggest align lower bounds and a lower max speed. It allows people living in places to have a (pretty trivial) odds of catching people by active piloting/living but keeps a low bar with regard to "passive" defences. I was vehemently against removing the mass penalty, for example, I wanted it pushed even higher.

I want to see active fleets rewarded, I don't want passive defences to be the one stop shop for defence. They will be, once again.

A lot of people hate nullification but it's the only decent counter to anchorable spam.

The amount of time that a bubble wall delays an attacker is a scant minute or two, at most. This matters for catching ratters, but not for contesting sovereignty. Use scouts to find bubble walls. Use cynos to avoid bubble walls. Use an alternate route. Use nullified strategic cruisers. Send in a team to blow up the bubble walls before the campaign starts and/or the vulnerability timer; anchorable bubble fields take a long time to erect due to their requirement of an industrial ship to haul the largest ones. Stealth bombers are very good at catching and murdering industrials.

This is a molehill, not a mountain.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-09-11 23:11:29 UTC
Also, as an aside, if you dislike bubble walls, you are going to HATE the new structures CCP is adding. CCP is talking about adding a variety of structures that can be used to detect hostiles and augment travel in sovereign space. I believe that players should be able to invest in their systems and see some benefit from it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#103 - 2015-09-11 23:12:39 UTC
Just make it so that entosis links can't be fitted on frigates imo.

Also I would suggest caution with rolling back fatigue, there has a great many positive changes coming out of the pheobe expansion and I hope that you won't go any further than as proposed here.

The days when PL drop 100 archons from the other side of the galaxy are thankfully gone; and as a result I am finally seeing some medium sized gang fights involving capitals without them being third partied.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#104 - 2015-09-11 23:12:55 UTC
Querns wrote:
peaSTAR wrote:
so with the jump timer changes 5 days of fatigue max. this means the uni has shrunk even more now.

does this mean fatigue timers will be adjusted ? (reduced) being as a quick response fleet will only be able to jump 3 times before hitting 1 days 7 hours 17 mins of fatigue,after that time it will be 7 days 19 hours 38 mins, unless your allowed to go over the 5 day max period this is not going to be of any use.


thanks for the stupidity ccp.sandbox game,becoming more like a matchbox game

Considering that you can jump an unlimited number of times by waiting out 50 of the 60 minutes of fatigue a 5LY jump grants you, I fail to see the concern. A 5d fatigue, 5LY jump grants 1h12m of cooldown.



Based on this equation:
Cooldown (minutes) = Max ( fatigue / 10, 1 + ( distance in lightyears * ( 1 - bonus ) ) )

Max Fatigue is 5 days (5*24*60) = 7200

7200/10 = 720 minutes


so, 12 hours reactivation, when you jump with max Fatigue

My math may be messed up, but if you were relying on a popular online calc, I think it has gone wonky on you
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-09-11 23:14:29 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
So lemme get his straight - you want the sov, but you find it too difficult to coast the 20 seconds it would take you to clear the bubbles?


Most likely, he is trying to contort his personal vendetta towards anchored bubbles with respect to their efficacy at protecting ratters by implying that they are a relevant defense for sovereignty.

To that, anyone incensed at the existence of anchored bubbles would do well to train into a Proteus; they can be fit for warp disruptor range and to ignore bubbles, all while having superlative EHP. Use one to get initial tackle and light a cyno, or simply wait for the rest of your gang.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2015-09-11 23:15:40 UTC
Querns wrote:
Also, as an aside, if you dislike bubble walls, you are going to HATE the new structures CCP is adding. CCP is talking about adding a variety of structures that can be used to detect hostiles and augment travel in sovereign space. I believe that players should be able to invest in their systems and see some benefit from it.


I have enough problems with planning on dealing with the hell of vulnerable structures which will not shoot wihtout an alt in there, in systems with no local and inconsistent routes home, even from a mere 2 jumps out.

At least you guys can sit a few jumps out and the gates wont collapse behind you, can monitor local. We're going to have to park a toon on every structure just in case.

Believe me, your problems are nothing next to mine Straight
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#107 - 2015-09-11 23:15:54 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Querns wrote:
peaSTAR wrote:
so with the jump timer changes 5 days of fatigue max. this means the uni has shrunk even more now.

does this mean fatigue timers will be adjusted ? (reduced) being as a quick response fleet will only be able to jump 3 times before hitting 1 days 7 hours 17 mins of fatigue,after that time it will be 7 days 19 hours 38 mins, unless your allowed to go over the 5 day max period this is not going to be of any use.


thanks for the stupidity ccp.sandbox game,becoming more like a matchbox game

Considering that you can jump an unlimited number of times by waiting out 50 of the 60 minutes of fatigue a 5LY jump grants you, I fail to see the concern. A 5d fatigue, 5LY jump grants 1h12m of cooldown.



Based on this equation:
Cooldown (minutes) = Max ( fatigue / 10, 1 + ( distance in lightyears * ( 1 - bonus ) ) )

Max Fatigue is 5 days (5*24*60) = 7200

7200/10 = 720 minutes


so, 12 hours reactivation, when you jump with max Fatigue

My math may be messed up, but if you were relying on a popular online calc, I think it has gone wonky on you

Yeah, I was using an online calculator, and working quickly because I was at work and didn't want to commit too much time to it. That being said, the reality being worse than I thought only strengthens my initial point.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#108 - 2015-09-11 23:18:56 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Querns wrote:
Also, as an aside, if you dislike bubble walls, you are going to HATE the new structures CCP is adding. CCP is talking about adding a variety of structures that can be used to detect hostiles and augment travel in sovereign space. I believe that players should be able to invest in their systems and see some benefit from it.


I have enough problems with planning on dealing with the hell of vulnerable structures which will not shoot wihtout an alt in there, in systems with no local and inconsistent routes home, even from a mere 2 jumps out.

At least you guys can sit a few jumps out and the gates wont collapse behind you, can monitor local. We're going to have to park a toon on every structure just in case.

Believe me, your problems are nothing next to mine Straight


Don't worry Once more of the Citadel info comes out and the WHers complain about the POS's turning into Citadels and not firing back... you will have the rest of EVE yelling at you next that you should always have someone online and use your space more :P While they themselves never rolled WH's to make isk and Micromanaging WH mass so your fleet can return to your own hole :P
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-09-11 23:19:41 UTC
Querns wrote:

I don't follow -- how does anything you talked about limit skirmish warfare?


...I'm not sure how it does, either. I'm a little bit addled today.
Casandra Elise McIntire
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#110 - 2015-09-11 23:20:14 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
159Pinky wrote:
So, now that all gates will be bubbled to **** to prevent entosis. When will you start add a limited timer for bubbles to be in space? SO ppl at least have to put an effort in to keeping their entrances bubbled

interdiction nullifier subsystems m8


That would mean flying a T3, which some groups are unwilling to risk. Some groups, feel that trolling in interceptors are the only option they have to ensure positive KB stats and receive funding for said trolling.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2015-09-11 23:20:36 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Don't worry Once more of the Citadel info comes out and the WHers complain about the POS's turning into Citadels and not firing back... you will have the rest of EVE yelling at you next that you should always have someone online and use your space more :P While they themselves never rolled WH's to make isk and Micromanaging WH mass so your fleet can return to your own hole :P



Actually, my isk is on YouWereNeverMeantToLiveThereAnyway™
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-09-11 23:21:05 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Querns wrote:
Also, as an aside, if you dislike bubble walls, you are going to HATE the new structures CCP is adding. CCP is talking about adding a variety of structures that can be used to detect hostiles and augment travel in sovereign space. I believe that players should be able to invest in their systems and see some benefit from it.


I have enough problems with planning on dealing with the hell of vulnerable structures which will not shoot wihtout an alt in there, in systems with no local and inconsistent routes home, even from a mere 2 jumps out.

At least you guys can sit a few jumps out and the gates wont collapse behind you, can monitor local. We're going to have to park a toon on every structure just in case.

Believe me, your problems are nothing next to mine Straight

I didn't say I had problems. I said that the stuff CCP is planning is going to be significantly more effective at "passive defense" than the 45 seconds someone loses slowboating through a bubble wall.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#113 - 2015-09-11 23:24:25 UTC
If you don't announce a significantly more comprehensive capital rebalance by the end of next week then you can say goodbye to my patronage.
Sarah Saoirse
Doomheim
#114 - 2015-09-11 23:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Saoirse
Now that jump fatigue is being capped, the 365 day cooldown on pod jumping seems a bit excessive. Could we have another look at that please, and possibly scale it back to 30 or even 90 days. 365 days is rather punishing, and a shorter timer would at least make it a viable option again for established players wanting to move out to 0.0.
Sakido Cain
Duragon Pioneer Group
#115 - 2015-09-11 23:30:22 UTC
drunklies wrote:
The fatigue limit should be set at 24 hours, though the cumulative effect on the jump reactivation timer should continue to scale. This allows for people to play each day, but would prevent the dog piling and such that fatigue wishes to prevent.


This is honestly the best statement I have seen in regards to fatigue. There should not be any reason to limit this to more than 24hrs. This cap would still allow for groups to wage war, but would prevent the dog piles when 2 factions decide to duke it out somewhere. It would also give groups the option to call in for assistance a day or two before they plan on having a major fight. Allowing for strategic warfare, but preventing unwanted 3rd parties crossing the galaxy to hit a fight they found out about after it started.

The current system is similar to cutting off your leg, because you have an ingrown toenail. The proposed changes are better, but you are still cutting off the toe rather than just the nail.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2015-09-11 23:40:35 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Don't worry Once more of the Citadel info comes out and the WHers complain about the POS's turning into Citadels and not firing back... you will have the rest of EVE yelling at you next that you should always have someone online and use your space more :P While they themselves never rolled WH's to make isk and Micromanaging WH mass so your fleet can return to your own hole :P

A more constructive thing to do would be to keep bringing up the issues and get CCP to address them. Perhaps I'm on a high after seeing these changes, but they do seem receptive to feedback. Perhaps citadels should have different rules in WHs?

Incidentally, WHs were never intended to be inhabited and chained akin to sov, so .. Blink

159Pinky wrote:
So, now that all gates will be bubbled to **** to prevent entosis. When will you start add a limited timer for bubbles to be in space? SO ppl at least have to put an effort in to keeping their entrances bubbled

Don't be silly - people live in those systems, and the bubbles will be a massive annoyance to them more than it will ever be to entosis gangs. The only place you'll see bubble masses are at dead ends where traffic is low and ratting is high - same places they are right now.

Primary This Rifter wrote:
If you don't announce a significantly more comprehensive capital rebalance by the end of next week then you can say goodbye to my patronage.

I don't think that is what CCP meant by a 'cooldown' window of max 5 days...


Sarah Saoirse wrote:
Now that jump fatigue is being capped, the 365 day cooldown on pod jumping seems a bit excessive. Could we have another look at that please, and possibly scale it back to 30 or even 90 days. 365 days is rather punishing, and a shorter timer would at least make it a viable option again for established players wanting to move out to 0.0.

You know you can travel to the station you want to set a clone in, and set it there as many times as you like, right?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2015-09-11 23:41:23 UTC
uggh.. sometime delete this dbl post =/
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#118 - 2015-09-11 23:42:09 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
Don't worry Once more of the Citadel info comes out and the WHers complain about the POS's turning into Citadels and not firing back... you will have the rest of EVE yelling at you next that you should always have someone online and use your space more :P While they themselves never rolled WH's to make isk and Micromanaging WH mass so your fleet can return to your own hole :P



Actually, my isk is on YouWereNeverMeantToLiveThereAnyway™


LOL I remember that when they first came out .. First day we had a Large Caldari dropped in a c3 :P
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#119 - 2015-09-11 23:47:25 UTC
Sarah Saoirse wrote:
Now that jump fatigue is being capped, the 365 day cooldown on pod jumping seems a bit excessive. Could we have another look at that please, and possibly scale it back to 30 or even 90 days. 365 days is rather punishing, and a shorter timer would at least make it a viable option again for established players wanting to move out to 0.0.


I made it out to null without an issue.. used a Ares. Established players have no problems shifting around gates. We know how to move around them. Hell. Before the lands of No SP loss for Pods, you either ate the cost of 100m+ to update your clone from PodX.. Or you Ceptored the 50+ jumps to the next staging system. Bought what you needed there and got ready to rock and roll. It's the players who don't want to settle in a region and constantly roam around that have issues. Not those Established. Those Established just JC where needed or Ceptor. 10x Clones means alot of space you can drop your fun, especially with Restrictions lifted on standings for clones.
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#120 - 2015-09-11 23:52:40 UTC
Igor Nappi wrote:
CCP caving in to the nullbear whine - the devblog.


If you don't live in null, what difference does it make to you? These changes are needed in null, either you are upset cause you are one of the entities trying to abuse the system or you just can't stand that those in null work for and fight for areas you can't or won't try to hold yourself.

Don't blame fixing bad game design for making it harder for you to troll those you can't fight any other way then by abusing bad conceptual design.