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Superior blaster platform?

Author
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-09-10 18:25:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Forum Toon
for pve purposes,
I'm really enjoying the blaster short range "in your face" method.

Right now I'm on brutix gaining some skills and standing.
I guess in 2-3 weeks I'll have enough skills to feel comfortable on battleships.

I was pondering between the Hyperion and the Megatron.

from one side the Hyperion from its description states it is a blaster platform of choice and get sweet armor rep bonus (means I can fit less tank and more gank) but the megatron gets bonus to tracking.

My long term goal (first one I'm aiming) is to get into (with proper skills) a Kronos, but before I reach that goal need to make a stop at a t1 ship.

Tank wise from raw stats the hyperion got much more HP then the mega, also hyperion got bigger cap.

Looking at slots the hyperion got additional med slot over the megatron but one less low slot, I can see the med slot used maybe for web or tracking computer but loss of low slot means less tank or less gank mod.

Another surprising difference I noted was though the megatron have 7 guns the Hyperion have only 6 but... the hyperion gets a missile launcher hard point...
Maybe with proper skills that hardpoint can be used with RLML vs frigs? or the dps will be awful to even consider?

on the PG \ CPU fron the mega got less PG and uses more guns which might lead to tighter fit.

on the drones front the hyperion got much more generous bay and bandwidth and if I'm not mistaken you can possibly have a flight of 5 sentry drones in there? but you risk not using scout drones vs the frigs\drones rats with web\scram etc... but otoh if the single RLML with decent skills to fit T2 version with T2 ammo maybe it will be enough then you can use the sentry drones or heavy drones as we are talking about blaster ship.

choices.

I would appreciate your tips as it will allow me to plan my skill queue.

07

Edit:
ok I tested on EFT the hyperion as it looked good on paper.
using All V profile and sticking to T2 modules and such for investment \ return sake I tried first just 1 RLML with T2 ammo.
precision missile give 27 spd while rage missile give 37. I don't think it will be enough to handle some of those elite frigs.
at any rate checking again using T2 fit of blaster + 1 RHML + 5 scout drones for smaller vessels and using "omni" lazy tanking I got this:

[Hyperion, Hyperion]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Reactive Armor Hardener

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Stasis Webifier II
100MN Afterburner II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I

Hobgoblin II x5

With skills at "all V" you get round 1000 dps, cap stable when AB runs all the time (almost 390ms speed) and around 30km range on blasters. also on worst case armor rep can run for 3 minutes with everything working, considering some modules won't be active (such as LMJD) you could use it for longer periods if you got spike damage.
the LMJD is for the ooops moments when you need to get out.

thoughts?

though I would skip the missiles as I won't be using those on the kronos and for 1 unbonused launcher it will be waste of time for now until such times which I'll wish to train into missile ships.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#2 - 2015-09-10 20:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Serious answer: Hyperion because armor rep for newbros
Semi-serious answer: Blaster Domi (navy eventually) with T2 Heavy drones looks kinda fun and is something you can consider.
Something you haven't considered answer: Blaster Astarte (around 1300 dps without implants)

Blasters are fun but a lot of missions have enemies spawning 70km-90km out. You're going to be flying around A LOT. Maybe rail+sentry domi/Hyp until you get Kronos?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
#3 - 2015-09-10 20:49:32 UTC
I'll put this out there first: I haven't done High-sec missions in a LONG time. You didn't mention if this is for Lvl 4's, anoms in null sec or any of the other various rat shooting PvE options that are out there. I'll assume you're going w/ lvl 4's

The AB won't make a big enough difference in your tank to use it. It will get you in range, but depending on what missions you're doing (serpentis) they should be moving towards you. As for drones, you should probably keep a flight of lights in your bay for those pesky scram frigs. Recall your drones once they're finished off, then you dont have to worry about the web (which means a cap mod or an application mod.) Next, you have minimal cap mods. I personally like capacitor boosters, but you can fill in to your liking. Without the web and the AB, cap should last longer, even more with another cap mod.

Regarding the MJD, its only taking up space at this point. Either fit for sniping (Rails) and keep it, or save the fitting/cap and use something else. Also, I think that scram frigs turn off MJD's (but don't quote me on that.)

Thats my feel for it.


Also, you'll probably enjoy a Blastarte (Blaster Astarte), a Blaster tengu, a Blaster Proteus or a Deimos more than you will enjoy a Battleship. Thats just my opinion though :)

Cedric

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-09-10 21:03:38 UTC
long range weaponry is king for missions since any time you use to fly around after targets is time lost actually completing the mission.

That being said, you can fit a rail hyp quite comfortably in a missioning setup it's even capable of being shield fit for extra drone gankage.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#5 - 2015-09-10 21:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Anize Oramara wrote:
Serious answer: Hyperion because armor rep for newbros
Semi-serious answer: Blaster Domi (navy eventually) with T2 Heavy drones looks kinda fun and is something you can consider.
Something you haven't considered answer: Blaster Astarte (around 1300 dps without implants)

Blasters are fun but a lot of missions have enemies spawning 70km-90km out. You're going to be flying around A LOT. Maybe rail+sentry domi/Hyp until you get Kronos?

yeah but then there's the horrific prerequisites for the damn thing.
not something one would consider newbie friendly
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-09-10 22:26:59 UTC
well,
I did not consider MWD instead of AB. that's still left to be tested.

I actually like the blasters and their short range, that's why I aimed there.

I think I should get some more skills before using spensive hulls like Astarte (god dammit now I imagine space marines), also looking now the hull alone costs more then a battleship hull iirc.

the thing with long range is I'll need to get skills into sentry drones, then I'll need to split my dps mods between drones and guns etc... lots of micromanage and I wanted something bit more simple.

and yes I'm talking about L4s in highsec.

Dominix navy does look good and considering heavy drones\medium drones flight might be interesting but again it's navy hull and without prope T2 drones I'm not going to risk navy or other spensive drones there which will take time to train.
hence why I aimed at T1 guns oriented battleship with light drones for frigs which will be easier to focus on training then to branch out.

Ok so let's consider the hyperion again,
the MJD you say is useless here - replace it with MWD maybe to close range then shut it down?
and if the AB is not that good maybe switch to 2 tracking computers and to mitigate the cap size damage from MWD I could use cap battery to increase the cap size instead.
Web is waste of slot here? take additional cap charger or something else here?

Regarding tank,
I though about it and instead of EANM + RAH + DC I could just use 2 specific mission hardeners (for missions like sansha and such where there are 2 major damage types used) and free up a low slot for another damage module, maybe TE or something.

thoughts?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#7 - 2015-09-10 23:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Serious answer: Hyperion because armor rep for newbros
Semi-serious answer: Blaster Domi (navy eventually) with T2 Heavy drones looks kinda fun and is something you can consider.
Something you haven't considered answer: Blaster Astarte (around 1300 dps without implants)

Blasters are fun but a lot of missions have enemies spawning 70km-90km out. You're going to be flying around A LOT. Maybe rail+sentry domi/Hyp until you get Kronos?

yeah but then there's the horrific prerequisites for the damn thing.
not something one would consider newbie friendly

Yup, Meant it more as an alternative to the kronos. All the training time you'd put into BS V, Large Hybrid V, Large blaster Spec, Marauder pre-req etc.

Also the astarte is super cheap, like less than 80mill more than a T1 BS currently. It's the training time that'll kill ya. Kronos is of course 1 bill ;)

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#8 - 2015-09-10 23:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Forum Toon wrote:
well,
I did not consider MWD instead of AB. that's still left to be tested.

I actually like the blasters and their short range, that's why I aimed there.

I think I should get some more skills before using spensive hulls like Astarte (god dammit now I imagine space marines), also looking now the hull alone costs more then a battleship hull iirc.

the thing with long range is I'll need to get skills into sentry drones, then I'll need to split my dps mods between drones and guns etc... lots of micromanage and I wanted something bit more simple.

and yes I'm talking about L4s in highsec.

Dominix navy does look good and considering heavy drones\medium drones flight might be interesting but again it's navy hull and without prope T2 drones I'm not going to risk navy or other spensive drones there which will take time to train.
hence why I aimed at T1 guns oriented battleship with light drones for frigs which will be easier to focus on training then to branch out.

Ok so let's consider the hyperion again,
the MJD you say is useless here - replace it with MWD maybe to close range then shut it down?
and if the AB is not that good maybe switch to 2 tracking computers and to mitigate the cap size damage from MWD I could use cap battery to increase the cap size instead.
Web is waste of slot here? take additional cap charger or something else here?

Regarding tank,
I though about it and instead of EANM + RAH + DC I could just use 2 specific mission hardeners (for missions like sansha and such where there are 2 major damage types used) and free up a low slot for another damage module, maybe TE or something.

thoughts?

For an actual Hyperion build;
- Ddon't bother with tracking comps if you're going blasters, like at all.
- If your skills are low you are going to need a decent chunk of tank, some LV4s are pretty nasty and have disrupting frigs.
- You are going to need a MWD if you're going to go blasters or you will never ever get in range.
- You'll need to get at least a full set of heavies, T1 is fine with backup T2 mediums and lights.
- Don't bother with batteries, look at a cap booster and maybe some flux capacitors if going shield tank. Cap rechargers if going armor tank.
- X-Large pith c-type shield reps are cheap, 30mill each.
- If you don't use it yet, get EFT and load your skills in there via EveMon so you can play around with some numbers.
- Start lv4 missions with more tank than you think you'll need till you get the hang of the missions and then remove tank that you don't need.
- Sniper fits will always need less tank (thus fit more gank) than blaster fits.
- It might be worth it to start with rail/sentry/MJD fit and as your skills improve get into a blaster fit boat.
- Good rule of thumb for Lv4 missions, have at least 1k combined gank and tank. And even then it's not guaranteed to be enough.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Dr Cedric
Independent Miners Corporation
#9 - 2015-09-10 23:51:24 UTC
I've also flown Megathrons for PvE and the do very well at sniping setups. The extra 7.5% tracking per level comes in handy catching the small stuff flying straight at you when you're at range. All that said, you'll still want to keep, at minimum, a set of light drones to drop the frigs that get under your guns.

Finally, are you set on the hyperion? The Rokh makes a nice blaster boat in some situations. Also, the Proteus and Deimos are very capable mission runners (even if they aren't the most efficient). Its surprising how much damage a HAC/Tech 3 cruiser can mitigate when flying at 600+ m/s. Not to mention, hitting the 500 dps mark pretty easily. You should look into one of those at some point.

Cedric

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#10 - 2015-09-11 00:05:05 UTC
Vindicator

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Forum Toon
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-09-11 01:08:50 UTC
Proteus is viable for L4s?
I admit the speed of cruiser is something I prefer.
Jin Mei Xin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-09-11 02:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jin Mei Xin
Val'Dore wrote:
Vindicator



This. I run an armor set up for missions with one and it's a nice change of pace. Make sure to dual prop an MWD and an MJD to close the gap. Get T2 guns to get Null L and slap a tracking computer for extra optimal range. 1k+ DPS = Winningggggg.
Valkin Mordirc
#13 - 2015-09-11 06:23:32 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
Proteus is viable for L4s?
I admit the speed of cruiser is something I prefer.



The proteus is horrifically slow.
#DeleteTheWeak
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-09-11 11:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Forum Toon wrote:
Proteus is viable for L4s?
I admit the speed of cruiser is something I prefer.



The proteus is horrifically slow.



I ran L4's in a rail Proteus for a fair bit before I fell asleep mid-mission and got it exploded.

I was hitting 700 DPS cold at 40k with FN antimatter + another 100 with light drones and tanking most missions easily with a C type repper and repair subsystem.

It's not as fast as a Machariel but Proteus mobility combined with medium rails' damage application is pretty effective; definitely not the worst/slowest choice. The only thing to note is that your speed is critical to your tank, so elite webbing frigates have to die immediately. I had to do alot of manual flying to minimize transversal against those frigates, but my experience flying a Mach was pretty similar - just more damage and slightly worse application.


However, using blasters for missions is a bit nonsensical unless you are in a Kronos which can project to 70k with null.

I assure you, the novelty of having to cap yourself out MWD burning to each group of rats will wear off rapidly. If you must use a Gallente turret battleship, a rail sniping fit would be far superior.

The best option would be to forget the 90 day marauder train, spend a week training minmatar BS and large projectile turrets to level 4, and get a Machariel.
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-09-11 13:29:38 UTC
it's that bad?

and I was considering T1 hulls first pirate\navy and such require (i think) more skills to justify the price.
so start with rails until I get into kronos?
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#16 - 2015-09-11 14:13:59 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
it's that bad?

and I was considering T1 hulls first pirate\navy and such require (i think) more skills to justify the price.
so start with rails until I get into kronos?

Until your skills improve you're just better off with a sniper build. Here's a relatively cheap setup that you can work towards if you are set on going blaster Kronos. Don't bother with getting T2 sentries or T2 rails but everything else will be useful on a Kronos. As your skills improve you will need to rely on the Cap booster less and less. Obviously replace ENAMs with rat specific as needed (expl/kin for angels, EM/Therm for sansha/blood, therm/kin for gurista/serp/EOM, ENAMs for drones, merc). You might need to meta some modules like the AB, cap booster, TCs depending on skills. Worth using a MJD instead of a AB on some missions and use slightly longer ranged ammo (Blockade for example)

[Hyperion, Rail Snipe]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hammerhead II x5
Caldari Navy Warden x5


Currently nothing beats a Machariel blitzing for Lv4 income and the only skills that carry over from a Kronos fit to a machariel is... gun support skills I guess, armor tanking skills if you opt for a armor tank on the Mach and the falloff bonus tied to Gal BS. So not the best of transitions ever so something to keep in mind.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-09-12 13:45:45 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
it's that bad?

and I was considering T1 hulls first pirate\navy and such require (i think) more skills to justify the price.
so start with rails until I get into kronos?


You can be in a Mach much faster than a Kronos with no real downside. Also half the price.
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-09-12 17:20:07 UTC
thing is with marauder except for the lazy tank and fact you are imune to Ewar you can loot and salvage at the same time so it saves a trip and you got those high slots empty and ready for use anyway.

Also 4 guns only means less ammo means more cargo space.
Dethmourne Silvermane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-09-12 18:00:41 UTC
Forum Toon wrote:
thing is with marauder except for the lazy tank and fact you are imune to Ewar you can loot and salvage at the same time so it saves a trip and you got those high slots empty and ready for use anyway.

Also 4 guns only means less ammo means more cargo space.


If you want to loot, yes, the Marauder is better. The maximum ISK/hr for level 4 missions involves not looting at all.

Interested Party (TM)

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-09-12 18:08:10 UTC
Dominix
is a very newbro friendly BS.
T1 modules will work just fine and are fairly easily skilled up to T2 if you stay focused.

can be shield tanked
can be armour tanked

works with either blasters or rails
works with either sentries or heavies (i'd recommend heavies)
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