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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remote repair modules - rebalance of the mechanic.

Author
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#61 - 2015-09-19 03:14:26 UTC
Aven Valkyr wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread but I need to say something here.

As a logi pilot, -1 to this idea.

What about incursion pilots? by your standards you would need 5 - 6 logi pilots to compliment a fleet running vanguards that only rewards 10 - 11 players anyway. That would totally screw over the PVE community.

If CCP actually takes this post seriously, and I hope they don't, then all the things suggested here should only relate to PVP.

I don't know if you actually fly logi, but being a logi pilot is very demanding as it is. You can't always lock up the whole fleet. It takes a huge amount of actual pilot skill, and I'm not talking about SP. Having the overview working for you, watchlist up, fleet broadcasts open, having to orbit things, enabling AB's and support mods, launching drones to get on killmails, all while keeping the fleet alive is extremely taxing.

If any proposed nerfs actually go through, like reduced repair amount for additional cycles down to a certain limit, or limit how many modules we can fit, or anything that nerfs logi in some way, should also see some sort of buff, like the scimitar's remote tracking bonus or something. If they do any proposed nerfs, and the community is looking for a solution, then here is my proposal:

Add more logi boats to the game. Give them each some way of assisting the fleet in other ways in relation to the nerf. Give them all some sort of fleet assistance module, such as the scimi's remote tracking computers.

One way you could do this is by making it for PVP to have the proposed changes as stated in previous topics in this thread. As soon as a logi boat repairs someone on a criminal timer then the suggested nerfs happen. But then depending on the ship the other fleet assistance modules come up. A person could get very creative here. This topic is now getting lengthy but let me further clarify what I"m suggesting:

Make a global change where anyone trying to remote repair someone with a PVP timer has reduced cycle time, or can't repair as much on a gradual repair decrease. This is a GLOBAL thing for ALL logi boats. However, introduce a new class of "pvp" style logi boats. For example:

-Caldari PVP logi boat:
Caldari cruiser:
100% bonus to transfer range for remote shield and remote capacitor transmission modules per level
15% reduction in capacitor need for the activation of remote shield and remote capacitor transmission modules per level
Logistics:
50% bonus to range for remote ECCM modules per level
75% bonus to strength of remote ECCM modules per level
Role Bonus:
80% reduction in powergrid and CPU needs of remote shield and remote capacitor transmission modules
25% bonus to shield amount
50% bonus to gravimetric sensor strength

This is just an example. And please don't hate on it. My main point here is, if you are going to nerf logi, make the nerf apply to PVP ONLY. Leave PVE logistics alone. It's fine the way it is.


The T2 logistics cruisers already do this. Gallente Onerios does remote tracking computers, Ammar Guardian does really spectacular cap transfer. I don't recall the secondary support of the other two, but they all do something besides repair, it's just overshadowed by their primary focus.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#62 - 2015-09-19 03:21:54 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Fixing Logistics

Worth to read an consider his words.


This Mittani post is considerably more well put together than anything posted on the forums so far.


Did anyone read this article? This is a very well written article.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2015-09-19 04:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Did anyone read this article? This is a very well written article.

I read it, and I think it's an interesting idea and a possibility. I disagree with the writer about the drone bays, however; I think the current drone bays are more than enough to repair ships in addition to the other effects.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#64 - 2015-09-19 04:30:21 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Did anyone read this article? This is a very well written article.

I read it, and I think it's an interesting idea and a possibility. I disagree with the writer about the drone bays, however; I think the current drone bays are more than enough to repair ships in addition to the other effects.


I am glad that you read it, I am just relieved that it offers the most "out of the box" solution presented thus far that I have read.

I can not reiterate enough the validity of this article, I would like everyone who reads this forum, to read that article. It is a very well expounded article.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-09-19 06:25:45 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
The T2 logistics cruisers already do this. Gallente Onerios does remote tracking computers, Ammar Guardian does really spectacular cap transfer. I don't recall the secondary support of the other two, but they all do something besides repair, it's just overshadowed by their primary focus.


Gallente and Minmatar both do remote tracking (with armor and shield respectively).

Amarr and Caldari both do cap transfer (with armor and shield respectively).
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#66 - 2015-09-19 07:08:45 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Did anyone read this article? This is a very well written article.

I read it, and I think it's an interesting idea and a possibility. I disagree with the writer about the drone bays, however; I think the current drone bays are more than enough to repair ships in addition to the other effects.


I am glad that you read it, I am just relieved that it offers the most "out of the box" solution presented thus far that I have read.

I can not reiterate enough the validity of this article, I would like everyone who reads this forum, to read that article. It is a very well expounded article.


-1 to this p.o.s article you enjoy promoting.

Turning live saving boats into 3rd party tanking boats is not my idea of a fun time as its going to turn all fitting doctrines into ganking boats and destroy spider tanking carriers.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Digital Vendetta
#67 - 2015-09-19 07:32:50 UTC
Not sure where I posted this idea -

Why not change the way the racial ships preform logistics!

Amarr/Caldari = burst rr. High repair rate with longer cycle
Gallentte/Min = steady flow. Low but constant repair rate.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Unit562
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2015-09-20 11:25:27 UTC
This is what I hear:
"I can't FC, pick targets, counter fleets, or be a competent pvp'er in any way, shape, or form."

It's really simple, like learn how to fly a Curse, problem solved. Before you spout your mouth off, It's really that simple.
Anthar Thebess
#69 - 2015-09-20 11:38:12 UTC
CCP want to introduce similar mechanic to citadels , they can get specific amount of damage in 30s , rest will be migrated.
Lets use the same thing in remote aid modules.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2015-09-20 14:58:57 UTC
Please note I came up with this proposal not out of self-interest, but because it comes up often and I like trying to come up with ideas. I don't have a horse in this race, I don't live out in Null or have to deal with the invincible wall of logi. However, as it comes up often, it does seem like a problem that could use tweaking, and my idea is to tweak it to reduce these problems. Actually I do have a logi pilot (fully trained, not been able to fly it yet due to conflicting schedules with corp), so I don't actually want a logi nerf. However, people have made a good case in the past as to why logi becomes a problem in large scale (and it seems like it might get nerfed someday, so why not do it smartly now?), so my idea is to have logi scale itself down over time.

That said...

Since I have so much free time, I chewed on the numbers a bit from that idea I threw out there. For a recap, my idea was remote logi fatigue. When you get remote repped as a pilot, and this timer is bound to the pilot not the ship, you start to gain repair fatigue. Each successive repair gradually increases this fatigue. This fatigue, over time, reduces the amount of hitpoints restored to your ship by a percentage. The fatigue is on a timer, if you go a certain period of time without receiving remote reps, it resets completely.

My starting proposal uses these numbers. These can be tweaked to adjust to discussion.

Fatigue timer 30 minutes
Fatigue per rep 0.002%
Max fatigue possible 30%
Multiplier for source of reps generating fatigue
---Small remote repair source: 1x
---Medium remote repair source: 2x
---Large remote repair source: 3x
---Capital remote repair source: 5x

Throwing numbers and equations into Open Office spreadsheet, I got these results...

Small and medium rep sources, gradually increasing the fatigue on the target pilot, would be able to rep for a little more than five and a half minutes before the target pilot maxed out his fatigue. Larges would max out their fatigue at three and three-quarter minutes, and capital modules would max out logi fatigue in two and a half minutes.

Why this won't hurt small gang too much
This is designed to have logi be less effective over long periods of time, so invincible walls of remote repair can't as easily dominate large battles. Small gangs, working in smaller and quicker battles, would not be in battle long enough to generate higher amounts of fatigue that would effect their reps.

Why the enemy can't use this against you
Well, they can, technically, but not as easily as other ideas proposed. In the past, people have floated the idea of a max limit of remote logi per target, which obviously the enemy can use their own to block yours. In this case, all you would be doing is generating a small bit of extra fatigue, so if you tried repping your enemy, you'd simply end up repping your enemy but just a tiny bit less, while they are still blasting you away. Theoretically you could be extending the life of their fatigue, but that alone won't help you much if you're losing ships in the meanwhile.

They will just bring more logi!
And where will these extra pilots come from? If people have 10 guys ready to roam, they have 10 guys. Taking one more guy out of a DPS or tackle ship for another logi just gimps you. And in larger scale, if you have 200 pilots to commit to a fight, you have 200, gimped logi doesn't magically create another pilot or two for you to command. And moving one DPS guy to logi again gimps your damage output and just hinders your ability to fire through their logi and get their ships.

What is the point?
That logi keeps being the backbone of a well organized fleet, that has limitations that scale so defense can't scale indefinitely. I've played a lot of games...when its too easy to defend over offend, stalemates happen and it gets boring. You want a game where offense is favored. This reduces the reliance of logi for long-term battles, favors local reps and DPS output to destroy enemy ships before they can destroy you.

Structures need repping too
Since my proposal puts the timer on pilots, structures wouldn't get a fatigue timer. So your remote logi needs on structures would not be effected.