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Black Ops BS Rebalance

First post
Author
Nightfox BloodRaven
SQUIDS.
#1 - 2015-09-08 02:02:28 UTC
Any word on when this might occur?

Still wanna know why they dont have t2 resist lol
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-09-08 02:32:43 UTC
probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist.

reason is I don't know why
Nightfox BloodRaven
SQUIDS.
#3 - 2015-09-08 02:43:57 UTC
unidenify wrote:
probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist.

reason is I don't know why


LOL marauders dont have t2 resist? lol never heard of bastion ? lol
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#4 - 2015-09-08 04:35:31 UTC
Both classes should have T2 resists.

Bastion is a seperate thing.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#5 - 2015-09-08 05:40:22 UTC
marauders in bastion have t2 resists i think... marauders with base t2 resists would be a thing to see though....
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#6 - 2015-09-08 05:48:02 UTC
unidenify wrote:
probably same reason why Marauder don't have t2 resist. reason is I don't know why

You obviously missed the memo...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

RcTamiya
Magister Mortalis.
Undead Nation
#7 - 2015-09-08 06:28:08 UTC
FireFrenzy wrote:
marauders in bastion have t2 resists i think... marauders with base t2 resists would be a thing to see though....


140k dps tank on Vargur aint enough :)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2015-09-08 09:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Nightfox BloodRaven wrote:

Still wanna know why they dont have t2 resist lol


As has been pointed out in all the other BLOPS threads they do not need nor should they have T2 resists

they can already mount a good size tank for what they do these are not ships that are meant to stay in field for very long and have instead given up high tank for their extreme mobility.



Blops do not need all that much changed it is a relatively balanced class all the different blops have their role and do it very well. Even the under appreciated Sin has its place and fills its niche better than any of the other blops.

with that said there are a few small changes that could be made here or there to the blops and yes phoebe did take away some of their maneuverability by forcing them to commit to the field until their timer winds down rather than just being able to cap up and GTFO if they landed in a mess.


common things that come up that blops do not need

-Cov ops cloak

-higher scan res (or reduction to cloak penalty)

-T2 resists (a slightly better resist profile could be warranted)

-Removal of fatigue

-larger fuel bay

-more E-war

-larger jump range
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-09-08 09:19:29 UTC
This post is neither an idea nor a new feature...
Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#10 - 2015-09-08 09:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
The longer this goes on the more i think adding a covert cloak would be the best option. If this where to happen, when you compare a cover black ops to all other covert combat ships, it would fit in nicely.

DPS would only be a little more than a T3 or stratios

Their tank and scan res are lower than a t3

Their align time is longer, making them easier to catch on gates

The list goes on...

I can't think of a single legitimate reason not to do this... It makes zero sense to deny battleships access to a covert cloak simply because they are called battleships.
Luscius Uta
#11 - 2015-09-08 10:41:53 UTC
Even though Blops are usually designed for ganks and bridging, I think that ships so valuable shouldn't have such paper-thin tanks. Even stealth bombers have better tanks when you compare them with T1 ships of the same class.
While I don't think they should be as tanky as Marauders, they should at least have the same resist profile.
Also, since they commonly have a cap booster fitted, give them a bonus to cap injection amount.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-09-08 10:48:38 UTC
i dont think people understand when asking for a covert ops cloak, they dont need it because they have a jump drive, they dont need t2 resists because they have a jump drive

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-09-08 10:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Rek Seven wrote:
The longer this goes on the more i think adding a covert cloak would be the best option. If this where to happen, when you compare a cover black ops to all other covert combat ships, it would fit in nicely.

DPS would only be a little more than a T3 or stratios

Their tank and scan res are lower than a t3

Their align time is longer, making them easier to catch on gates

The list goes on...

I can't think of a single legitimate reason not to do this... It makes zero sense to deny battleships access to a covert cloak simply because they are called battleships.


legitimate reason = they have a jump drive, do you really think adding covops cloak to such a slow ship would have any benefit at all? why even use a blops if other battleships do brawling better, blops is made to be a suprise ship not something which has to take gates to get to a fight.

cov ops cloak on a blops is the stupidest idea ive ever heard

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lugh Crow-Slave
#14 - 2015-09-08 10:58:45 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Even though Blops are usually designed for ganks and bridging, I think that ships so valuable shouldn't have such paper-thin tanks.



A. Cost has nothing to do with it

B. these ships do not have paper thin tanks. Some fits are paper thin to get the most out of one aspect of the ship but they can also manage a pretty hefty brick tank




Now on to why no to the Cov ops cloak


while the ability to warp cloaked would not break the black ops it would change a good deal of the mechanics and fitting choices


for one the bonus to the cloaked speed would have to be nerffed removing a reason to fit a variety of cloaks

they would have to have their sensor strengths nerfed removing the reward for not fitting one or for fitting higher metta cloaks


all of that along with the fact that BLOPS do not need a cov ops cloak is why most say no to the Cov ops cloak
Rek Seven
The Persuaders
#15 - 2015-09-08 11:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Lan Wang wrote:

legitimate reason = they have a jump drive, do you really think adding covops cloak to such a slow ship would have any benefit at all? why even use a blops if other battleships do brawling better, blops is made to be a suprise ship not something which has to take gates to get to a fight.


"Because it has a jump drive" is not a legitimate reason to not give a cloak. And neither is "because they shouldn't use gates". opening up more opportunities for Blops to be caught on gates would be a good thing IMO.

I would rather black ops be changed into something fun and interesting to fly rather than yet another over-tanked dps platform than can drop on a target out of the blue.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

for one the bonus to the cloaked speed would have to be nerffed removing a reason to fit a variety of cloaks

all of that along with the fact that BLOPS do not need a cov ops cloak is why most say no to the Cov ops cloak


What it "needs" is down to personal opinion but that's not to say yours isn't valuable.

I see no reason for the cloak speed bonus to be removed... Maybe the bonus should be increased but only applies to non covert cloaks.

So i stick to what i said; black ops should get a covert cloak as giving it more tank or more dps is a far greater balance issue. Any issues people have with a cloak can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-08 11:58:43 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Any issues people have with a cloak can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.


LOLWUT?!
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-09-08 12:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
having a jumpdrive is a very legitimate reason to not give it a cov ops cloak, you just refuse to accept it, a ship than can drop on other ships via a covert cyno does not need to have a covert ops cloak, its pointless, and i didnt say "they shouldnt use gates" you can use gates all you want in a black ops it still has a cloak and has enough tank to burn back to a gate if it gets in trouble and it can also fit a mjd along with so much tackle, ewar and dps.

being able to kill them on gates is not a valid reason to give a cov ops cloak.

And black ops are super fun the way they are

do you live in highsec by any chance?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-09-08 12:07:05 UTC
Actually the legitimate call for it, is wormholes, for heavier additions to a cloaky fleet.

They'd make a nice change of pace to see.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2015-09-08 12:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
afkalt wrote:
Actually the legitimate call for it, is wormholes, for heavier additions to a cloaky fleet.

They'd make a nice change of pace to see.


i already use them in wh fleets.....

this is mosstly for lulz as t3s do it better and would still even if blops got the cov cloak
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2015-09-08 12:26:17 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

for one the bonus to the cloaked speed would have to be nerffed removing a reason to fit a variety of cloaks

all of that along with the fact that BLOPS do not need a cov ops cloak is why most say no to the Cov ops cloak


What it "needs" is down to personal opinion but that's not to say yours isn't valuable.

I see no reason for the cloak speed bonus to be removed... Maybe the bonus should be increased but only applies to non covert cloaks.

So i stick to what i said; black ops should get a covert cloak as giving it more tank or more dps is a far greater balance issue. Any issues people have with a cloak can easily be addressed with mechanic tweaks.



the only thing it needs a cov cloak for is to warp while off D-scan


and to do this you want to
give up or put exceptions into bonuses

loose risk/reward in the form of different cloak choices

nerf base stats of the hull


this is just not a good trade in any way so how about an argument as to why they should have cov ops cloaks
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