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Can the this Phoenix fit solo C5s?
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Samantha Elroy
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#21 - 2015-09-10 16:53:59 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
I've still cunfused as to why someone voluntarily trained a Phoenix as their first dread...


Morale SuperDrake
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2015-09-10 18:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
And it is easier/cheaper to shield tank (we live in a pulsar).

are shield mods cheaper if you promise to put them on a Naglfar? have I been shopping wrong all this time?

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#23 - 2015-09-10 19:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: KC Kamikaze
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
I really wish i had an argument against hating on the phoenix but i don't. I turned my phoenix pilot into a chimera pilot Cry


I was told that the Phoenix was the best C5 solo Dread over a year ago, were they lying? I hate people lying to me. I'll quit this friggin game if my Phoenix actually sucks.


For solo dread the Moros is hands down the best one and I don't mean like 5% better than a nag or rev .. it's like 50% better dps.

The phoenix is the worst. It has it's place in structure grinding and having ridiculous tank or blapping n00bs if your character name contains some combination of lord and servant, but none of those things help you kill sleepers.



WOW.......like just WOW. I should've never listened to those idiots on reddit. They were going on and on about the Phoenix not needing any tracking mods and can fit full tank + Dps and own C5s. It's not fair, missiles suppose to be the best weapon system for PVE so why is the Phoenix so bad? Now what......., you said you turned yours into a Chimera? How long will that take and what is the Chimera good for?



First don't listen to Kynric. Even in a black hole the phoenix is still bad. He has obviously never used a moros. Can the phoenix be used? Yes. But it's like 10 minutes work for each wave compared to 2 minutes in a moros.

Depending on the jump and drone skills you already have trained it might not take too long. You could use him to trigger another escalation wave when you run sites.

Keep your phoenix though if you live in a pulsar cause eventually DuraLexx will come knocking and a phoenix isn't bad for dread blapping.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#24 - 2015-09-10 23:55:40 UTC
I dunno, I have been honing my solo Peenix for C4 BH soloing.

It's like a Golem. But cheaper.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
WALAMOSHU
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-09-11 04:13:39 UTC
KC Kamikaze wrote:
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
I really wish i had an argument against hating on the phoenix but i don't. I turned my phoenix pilot into a chimera pilot Cry


I was told that the Phoenix was the best C5 solo Dread over a year ago, were they lying? I hate people lying to me. I'll quit this friggin game if my Phoenix actually sucks.


For solo dread the Moros is hands down the best one and I don't mean like 5% better than a nag or rev .. it's like 50% better dps.

The phoenix is the worst. It has it's place in structure grinding and having ridiculous tank or blapping n00bs if your character name contains some combination of lord and servant, but none of those things help you kill sleepers.



WOW.......like just WOW. I should've never listened to those idiots on reddit. They were going on and on about the Phoenix not needing any tracking mods and can fit full tank + Dps and own C5s. It's not fair, missiles suppose to be the best weapon system for PVE so why is the Phoenix so bad? Now what......., you said you turned yours into a Chimera? How long will that take and what is the Chimera good for?



First don't listen to Kynric. Even in a black hole the phoenix is still bad. He has obviously never used a moros. Can the phoenix be used? Yes. But it's like 10 minutes work for each wave compared to 2 minutes in a moros.

Depending on the jump and drone skills you already have trained it might not take too long. You could use him to trigger another escalation wave when you run sites.

Keep your phoenix though if you live in a pulsar cause eventually DuraLexx will come knocking and a phoenix isn't bad for dread blapping.



Ty Kamikaze, your posts are the best here and I'll listen to you. I'm getting some ideas on how to use my Phoenix now. My skills for the Phoenix aren't maxed yet. I made this post to verify if the Phoenix was worth maxing or to finish training for the Golem. All I have is missiles trained, limited drones, and no gunnery, so I'm stuck with the missile boats unfortunately.
WALAMOSHU
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-09-11 04:14:57 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
I dunno, I have been honing my solo Peenix for C4 BH soloing.

It's like a Golem. But cheaper.



How much can you make in those?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-09-11 05:14:04 UTC
You're way too trusting....

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#28 - 2015-09-12 02:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Trinkets friend
WALAMOSHU wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I dunno, I have been honing my solo Peenix for C4 BH soloing.

It's like a Golem. But cheaper.



How much can you make in those?


It's 90M a site for a Barracks.

I only have T1 siege, and I was just faffing about idly, so my 10 minute complete time is heavily hampered by my lock time. I also only have one non-scripted SeBo fitted. I'd probably go for the following fit and get the lock time down to 20s a BS and 30s a cruiser.

[Phoenix, C4 BH ISK Machine]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

Target Painter II
Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Siege Module II
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Guristas Scourge Citadel Cruise Missile
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Guristas Scourge Citadel Cruise Missile
Citadel Cruise Launcher I, Guristas Scourge Citadel Cruise Missile

Capital Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Capital Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Capital Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Guristas Scourge Citadel Cruise Missile x48
Scan Resolution Script x2

it's two shots for each with 1 TP. TP is essential, webs are not - their velocity doesn't matter so much.

The scramming frigates, you just bring in a RLML Caracal near the end and blap them instantly.

I reckon you could get the completion down to <5 mins.

Some of the other, more frig-heavy sites, would be a bit more of a challenge. RR isn't, though. Stuff just assplodes. it's gratifying.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-09-12 04:21:38 UTC
I trieda phoenix both on Sisi and on tranquility.

Results are as follows:

Torps dont work. cant handle battleships speed and sig radius even with crash and paints and new missile computers.

Cruise is the way to go. Max cruise, max links inc. info link, 2 boosted paints, t2 expl velocity rigs, 2-3 missile computers, and phoenix max skills hits for 15k reliably, no need for warp-ins like with turret dreads.

heres the problem.

A flight of sleepers neuts the cap of a phoenix dry in no time. Because you spend so many mid-slots on target paints and computers, you dont have enough to sustain cap drain for your tank.

I found that you need 3 siege cycles with a phoenix to clear an escalation wave, because you need to refit from damage projection to cap regen every 2 minutes. Basically, 2 sleepers per siege cycle, then refit for cap and tank.

A nag can do it in half a siege cycle, but you need to set warp-ins, and if sleepers get out of range, you will need max computers and tracking pill to barely hit. Nag also hits harder, for 20k.

Conclusion:

Phoenix will only work in a black hole. And even then capacitor might be problem. In normal holes, use nag or moros.

Adendum:

2 phoenix working in tandem is sleeper murder. 1 phoenix does dps, another phoenix tanks and does **** dps - and no need for warp-ins. One warps at 10 one warps at 30, both drop depot.

But solo, no. Only in black hole, and even there will have issue
WALAMOSHU
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-09-12 05:01:53 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I trieda phoenix both on Sisi and on tranquility.

Results are as follows:

Torps dont work. cant handle battleships speed and sig radius even with crash and paints and new missile computers.

Cruise is the way to go. Max cruise, max links inc. info link, 2 boosted paints, t2 expl velocity rigs, 2-3 missile computers, and phoenix max skills hits for 15k reliably, no need for warp-ins like with turret dreads.

heres the problem.

A flight of sleepers neuts the cap of a phoenix dry in no time. Because you spend so many mid-slots on target paints and computers, you dont have enough to sustain cap drain for your tank.

I found that you need 3 siege cycles with a phoenix to clear an escalation wave, because you need to refit from damage projection to cap regen every 2 minutes. Basically, 2 sleepers per siege cycle, then refit for cap and tank.

A nag can do it in half a siege cycle, but you need to set warp-ins, and if sleepers get out of range, you will need max computers and tracking pill to barely hit. Nag also hits harder, for 20k.

Conclusion:

Phoenix will only work in a black hole. And even then capacitor might be problem. In normal holes, use nag or moros.

Adendum:

2 phoenix working in tandem is sleeper murder. 1 phoenix does dps, another phoenix tanks and does **** dps - and no need for warp-ins. One warps at 10 one warps at 30, both drop depot.

But solo, no. Only in black hole, and even there will have issue


So Cool, Thank you so much for this wealth of info. So 2 Phoenixs are golden for C5s eh. This is good to know because I was about to give up on maxing the Phoenix to finish training for the Golem. I'll start converting my Rattler toon for the Phoenix as well........which will be another 4-5 months, sigh. Guess that means no C5 soloing for me for a while, but at least I don't feel like an idiot anymore thinking how I wasted a year and a half training for this Phoenix. Also I need to train the Info Warefare Link Specialization skill on my OGB toon, ty so much for that tip.

Does using SiSi interfere with TQ? How do you set that up?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-12 15:25:04 UTC
WALAMOSHU wrote:
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
I trieda phoenix both on Sisi and on tranquility.

Results are as follows:

Torps dont work. cant handle battleships speed and sig radius even with crash and paints and new missile computers.

Cruise is the way to go. Max cruise, max links inc. info link, 2 boosted paints, t2 expl velocity rigs, 2-3 missile computers, and phoenix max skills hits for 15k reliably, no need for warp-ins like with turret dreads.

heres the problem.

A flight of sleepers neuts the cap of a phoenix dry in no time. Because you spend so many mid-slots on target paints and computers, you dont have enough to sustain cap drain for your tank.

I found that you need 3 siege cycles with a phoenix to clear an escalation wave, because you need to refit from damage projection to cap regen every 2 minutes. Basically, 2 sleepers per siege cycle, then refit for cap and tank.

A nag can do it in half a siege cycle, but you need to set warp-ins, and if sleepers get out of range, you will need max computers and tracking pill to barely hit. Nag also hits harder, for 20k.

Conclusion:

Phoenix will only work in a black hole. And even then capacitor might be problem. In normal holes, use nag or moros.

Adendum:

2 phoenix working in tandem is sleeper murder. 1 phoenix does dps, another phoenix tanks and does **** dps - and no need for warp-ins. One warps at 10 one warps at 30, both drop depot.

But solo, no. Only in black hole, and even there will have issue


So Cool, Thank you so much for this wealth of info. So 2 Phoenixs are golden for C5s eh. This is good to know because I was about to give up on maxing the Phoenix to finish training for the Golem. I'll start converting my Rattler toon for the Phoenix as well........which will be another 4-5 months, sigh. Guess that means no C5 soloing for me for a while, but at least I don't feel like an idiot anymore thinking how I wasted a year and a half training for this Phoenix. Also I need to train the Info Warefare Link Specialization skill on my OGB toon, ty so much for that tip.

Does using SiSi interfere with TQ? How do you set that up?


You can have SiSi and TQ, just 2 separate folders on your hard drive.

But anyhow, you can really see your phoenix will work by using eft. Fir your phoenix, fit your booster ship, for a sleeper use a megathron at level 5, with 1 overdrive, thats roughly the same signature size and speed as a regular sleeper.

then drag your paints to projected effects on the sleeper, open your dps graph, and you will see exactly what will happen.

then drag x number of heavy neuts on your phoenix, i forget how many per sleeper, plus some for medium sleepers, and you will see effect on your cap.

right click on your curise missile in eft to see its explosion velocity and radius.

eft is your friend, you can theory craft everything there.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#32 - 2015-09-16 15:03:45 UTC
New developments while testing C4 Peenix:

Frontier Command Post
- use your alt to bomb the six frigs on initial wave when they are at you at zero. Save yourself 5 mins on completion
- ignore turrets, they never seem to aggro my dread.
- shoot BS on second wave, and then use Cerb to swat frigs
- web the cruisers with a bomber (insta decloak, web, cloak/warp) to insta them. hyena also works with AB, they hardly hit you
15 mins - ~120M ISK

Barracks
- shoot trigger on first wave, spawn second wave faster
- use hyena to web down targets for one-shotting in second wave
- when 3rd wave spawns, head back, grab bomber, bomb frigs
- clear remaining ships
10 mins - 100M ISK (realistically 6 mins but you have to wait the second cycle out)

Relic and Data sites, piece of cake, just go to town.

Phoenix will two shot frigates when they enter close orbit and slow down. One shot with webs. Yes indeed.

I will be trying Rapiers for decloak - web4blap - cloak to avoid aggro, to see if this can be sped up. With some coordination on what the dread is locking you only need to be on grid or visible long enough to get webs on.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2015-09-19 21:37:36 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
I've still cunfused as to why someone voluntarily trained a Phoenix as their first dread...


I was flying a phoenix doing large capital fights before most of you started to play.

That's why there's phoenix pilots. As for the new one's... no idea...

Been around since the beginning.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#34 - 2015-09-21 16:05:10 UTC
Someone made a video back in february. solo phoenix c5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvmnUNTxhjk

(good music too)

Yaay!!!!
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#35 - 2015-09-22 01:25:08 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
I've still cunfused as to why someone voluntarily trained a Phoenix as their first dread...


I was flying a phoenix doing large capital fights before most of you started to play.

That's why there's phoenix pilots. As for the new one's... no idea...


So, you were using the Phoenix before it was buffed and buffed again and got the MGC and MGE, which shows you have terrible abilities to do maths and fly things that are useful for fleets, corporations and alliances to have.

Except you did it years ago.

Because the older the stupidity, the more it makes the young people look dumber than you are, despite the fact that the phoenix these days has been buffed and got new modules which are, quite literally, game changers.

This is literally "I wasted my olde timey time and money being terrible at this game, and I didn't keep up with the meta, which makes you all worse than me. p.s. i'm better than you, just look at my SP's!"

Go back to your adult diapers, grandpa, and leave the blapping to the young 'uns.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#36 - 2015-09-22 01:29:30 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
I've still cunfused as to why someone voluntarily trained a Phoenix as their first dread...


I was flying a phoenix doing large capital fights before most of you started to play.

That's why there's phoenix pilots. As for the new one's... no idea...


So, you were using the Phoenix before it was buffed and buffed again and got the MGC and MGE, which shows you have terrible abilities to do maths and fly things that are useful for fleets, corporations and alliances to have.

Except you did it years ago.

Because the older the stupidity, the more it makes the young people look dumber than you are, despite the fact that the phoenix these days has been buffed and got new modules which are, quite literally, game changers.

This is literally "I wasted my olde timey time and money being terrible at this game, and I didn't keep up with the meta, which makes you all worse than me. p.s. i'm better than you, just look at my SP's!"

Go back to your adult diapers, grandpa, and leave the blapping to the young 'uns.

You are such a troll.

It is called painters and cruise missiles. As like 1000 ppl have pointed out on the new missile mod thread. Painters are more effective + cruise.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
WALAMOSHU
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-09-22 03:56:08 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
I've still cunfused as to why someone voluntarily trained a Phoenix as their first dread...


I was flying a phoenix doing large capital fights before most of you started to play.

That's why there's phoenix pilots. As for the new one's... no idea...


So, you were using the Phoenix before it was buffed and buffed again and got the MGC and MGE, which shows you have terrible abilities to do maths and fly things that are useful for fleets, corporations and alliances to have.

Except you did it years ago.

Because the older the stupidity, the more it makes the young people look dumber than you are, despite the fact that the phoenix these days has been buffed and got new modules which are, quite literally, game changers.

This is literally "I wasted my olde timey time and money being terrible at this game, and I didn't keep up with the meta, which makes you all worse than me. p.s. i'm better than you, just look at my SP's!"

Go back to your adult diapers, grandpa, and leave the blapping to the young 'uns.

You are such a troll.

It is called painters and cruise missiles. As like 1000 ppl have pointed out on the new missile mod thread. Painters are more effective + cruise.


One of the reasons why I post a thread a little before this one for CCP to release a Rapid Cruise Missile Launcher for the Phoenix. But lots of folks trash the idea because they fear the Phoenix will become a BOSS if it got one. Seems most of everyone enjoys seeing the Phoenix in it's current state, but I thought it was really good for C5 WHs (C4s seems a bit overkill for the Phoenix).
Cannibal Zuza
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-10-06 09:38:58 UTC
Phoenix are actually pretty good at running lev 5 missions.
Jeremy Kamira
#39 - 2015-10-06 16:56:54 UTC
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
WALAMOSHU wrote:
KC Kamikaze wrote:
I really wish i had an argument against hating on the phoenix but i don't. I turned my phoenix pilot into a chimera pilot Cry


I was told that the Phoenix was the best C5 solo Dread over a year ago, were they lying? I hate people lying to me. I'll quit this friggin game if my Phoenix actually sucks.


For solo dread the Moros is hands down the best one and I don't mean like 5% better than a nag or rev .. it's like 50% better dps.

The phoenix is the worst. It has it's place in structure grinding and having ridiculous tank or blapping n00bs if your character name contains some combination of lord and servant, but none of those things help you kill sleepers.



WOW.......like just WOW. I should've never listened to those idiots on reddit. They were going on and on about the Phoenix not needing any tracking mods and can fit full tank + Dps and own C5s. It's not fair, missiles suppose to be the best weapon system for PVE so why is the Phoenix so bad? Now what......., you said you turned yours into a Chimera? How long will that take and what is the Chimera good for?


So you read 1 thread on reddit and decided to spend months training a ship without looking for any secondary information?
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#40 - 2015-10-06 18:29:49 UTC
Jeremy Kamira wrote:
So you read 1 thread on reddit and decided to spend months training a ship without looking for any secondary information?


You make it sound like reddit isn't a source of quality advice and goodposts!
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