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Escrow Bug? Please help.
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Icarus Casablancas
Armilies Corporation
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#1 - 2015-09-02 14:25:27 UTC
I have 200Mill in my wallet and these are how my orders look like. Is there a bug with Escrow or I do not understand how it works? (Noob here).

Orders Remaining: 1 out of 109 max open orders
Total in Escrow: 866,455,407 ISK (additional -1,803,815 ISK to cover)
Base Broker Fee: 0.80% of order value
Transaction Tax: 0.90% of sales value
Sell Orders Total: 773,613,576 ISK
Buy Orders Total: 864,651,592 ISK

No margin trading skill, FYI.
Avvy
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-09-02 21:26:24 UTC
Icarus Casablancas wrote:
I have 200Mill in my wallet and these are how my orders look like. Is there a bug with Escrow or I do not understand how it works? (Noob here).

Orders Remaining: 1 out of 109 max open orders
Total in Escrow: 866,455,407 ISK (additional -1,803,815 ISK to cover)
Base Broker Fee: 0.80% of order value
Transaction Tax: 0.90% of sales value
Sell Orders Total: 773,613,576 ISK
Buy Orders Total: 864,651,592 ISK

No margin trading skill, FYI.



The Escrow is only the buy orders as the agent is holding your isk so that the isk is there when someone sells you something.

I'm guessing the additional is some of the broker fee. The other fees will be applied when a transaction takes place.

So it looks ok to me.




But if anyone else has a better explanation or more detailed feel free to comment.
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#3 - 2015-09-02 22:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Fubarticus
Icarus Casablancas wrote:
I have 200Mill in my wallet and these are how my orders look like. Is there a bug with Escrow or I do not understand how it works? (Noob here).

Orders Remaining: 1 out of 109 max open orders
Total in Escrow: 866,455,407 ISK (additional -1,803,815 ISK to cover)
Base Broker Fee: 0.80% of order value
Transaction Tax: 0.90% of sales value
Sell Orders Total: 773,613,576 ISK
Buy Orders Total: 864,651,592 ISK

No margin trading skill, FYI.


Margin Trading Skill
Quote:
Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 0 (untrained skill), each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%. This will bring your total escrow down to approximately 24% at level 5


Not exactly sure what you mean by a bug. What appears to you as incorrect? The escrow looks correct with no Margin Trading Skills. According to what you have entered here, you have 1 remaining "open order" valued at $864,651,592.00 isk with $866,455,407.00 isk in escrow which appears normal for sp level. The $1,803,814.20 isk is the "Base Broker Fee" of .80% of order value ( it is not: (additional -1,803,815 ISK to cover) ) which adds up to your total held in escrow. The broker fee will only be collected upon successful buy order. see nothing wrong to this point.

Should say Transaction tax

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Icarus Casablancas
Armilies Corporation
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#4 - 2015-09-02 22:38:52 UTC
Thank you to both for the clarifying responses!
Avvy
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-09-02 23:53:42 UTC
Icarus Casablancas wrote:
I have 200Mill in my wallet and these are how my orders look like. Is there a bug with Escrow or I do not understand how it works? (Noob here).

Orders Remaining: 1 out of 109 max open orders
Total in Escrow: 866,455,407 ISK (additional -1,803,815 ISK to cover)
Base Broker Fee: 0.80% of order value
Transaction Tax: 0.90% of sales value
Sell Orders Total: 773,613,576 ISK
Buy Orders Total: 864,651,592 ISK

No margin trading skill, FYI.



I took a look at this in-game.

With small value buy orders the broker fee is charged completely when you put the order on.

So I'm guessing you have some larger value buy orders, which is where the additional comes from. It would seem some of the broker fee from large value buy orders is put into Escrow.


So yeah, it still looks ok.
Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#6 - 2015-09-03 00:54:05 UTC
No, the broker fee is always taken immediately as you set up the order.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2015-09-03 01:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
*deleted*
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-09-03 02:28:17 UTC
Icarus Casablancas wrote:


No margin trading skill, FYI.


Train margin trading.
Avvy
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-09-03 07:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Hengle Teron wrote:
No, the broker fee is always taken immediately as you set up the order.


If that is the case where does the additional part come from?


Edit:

What I was saying was that with large value buy orders, it looks like at least part of the broker fee is put into Escrow.

So it would be removed from your wallet but if you cancelled one of those orders you would probably get back at least part of the broker fee from Escrow.
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#10 - 2015-09-03 10:04:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Fubarticus
Hengle Teron wrote:
No, the broker fee is always taken immediately as you set up the order.


That is correct. The Broker fee is payed immediately to set up the order The amount that would be the transaction Tax is held along side the buy order escrow . Once order is complete, Transaction tax is claimed by NPC (CCP).

"Whenever you set up a buy or sell order, you will have to pay the broker fee: 1% of the total order (0.75% at max skills), modified by standings. Whenever each unit gets sold, the seller will pay 1.5% of the sell price as a transaction tax (0.75% at max skills). The fees show up in the wallet journal as "Brokers Fee" and "Transaction Tax".

"So the typical station trader with zero standings will pay 2.5% of the order price as fees/taxes, 1.5% at max skills. This is important to take into account when calculating your profit, but of course the standings below can change that further.
Standings

Faction and corporation standings relevant to the station the orders are placed in will have an effect on the broker fee. Faction standings contribute significantly more than corp standings. Note that the unmodified standing is used for the calculation. The exact formula is:

BrokerFee % = (1% – 0.05% × BrokerRelationsSkillLevel) / e ^ (0.1 × FactionStanding + 0.04 × CorporationStanding)

With 10 faction and corp standing, the broker fee is reduced to 0.185%, saving you more than 1% through the buy and sell process"

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Avvy
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-09-03 10:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
...
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#12 - 2015-09-03 10:10:41 UTC
What additional part?

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Avvy
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-09-03 10:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Max Fubarticus wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
No, the broker fee is always taken immediately as you set up the order.


That is correct. The Broker fee is payed immediately to set up the order The amount that would be the transaction Tax is held along side the buy order escrow . Once order is complete, Transaction tax is claimed by NPC (CCP).

"Whenever you set up a buy or sell order, you will have to pay the broker fee: 1% of the total order (0.75% at max skills), modified by standings. Whenever each unit gets sold, the seller will pay 1.5% of the sell price as a transaction tax (0.75% at max skills). The fees show up in the wallet journal as "Brokers Fee" and "Transaction Tax".

"So the typical station trader with zero standings will pay 2.5% of the order price as fees/taxes, 1.5% at max skills. This is important to take into account when calculating your profit, but of course the standings below can change that further.
Standings

Faction and corporation standings relevant to the station the orders are placed in will have an effect on the broker fee. Faction standings contribute significantly more than corp standings. Note that the unmodified standing is used for the calculation. The exact formula is:

BrokerFee % = (1% – 0.05% × BrokerRelationsSkillLevel) / e ^ (0.1 × FactionStanding + 0.04 × CorporationStanding)

With 10 faction and corp standing, the broker fee is reduced to 0.185%, saving you more than 1% through the buy and sell process"

Max


I had to double check something in-game for this hence the delay.


The 'additional' part in the Escrow.

You said it's tax, you don't get taxed on buy orders. I still think the reason is what I said earlier. As for the broker fee on low value orders none of it ends up in Escrow, so the additional part must come from large value buy orders.

Could test it out if I wanted to waste millions in doing so. But easier to just get clarification from someone that actually knows.
Avvy
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-09-03 10:59:33 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Icarus Casablancas wrote:


No margin trading skill, FYI.


Train margin trading.



If I was to trade in EVE that's one skill I'd never learn as I dislike borrowing.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#15 - 2015-09-03 11:08:02 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Icarus Casablancas wrote:


No margin trading skill, FYI.


Train margin trading.



If I was to trade in EVE that's one skill I'd never learn as I dislike borrowing.


its not really the same as borrowing, you are just getting the opportunity to place orders without footing 100% of the cost upfront, you still have to pay for the items as normal, so if you put too many orders up and run out of isk you wont get the items

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-03 11:16:21 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Icarus Casablancas wrote:


No margin trading skill, FYI.


Train margin trading.



If I was to trade in EVE that's one skill I'd never learn as I dislike borrowing.


Its not borrowing at all.

You can never buy more than you have ISK for.

Margin trading lets you put speculative buy orders in a similar way to putting a bid on something on ebay. You still ahve to ahve teh ISK up front to close the deal there is no credit involved.
Avvy
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-09-03 11:23:13 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Icarus Casablancas wrote:


No margin trading skill, FYI.


Train margin trading.



If I was to trade in EVE that's one skill I'd never learn as I dislike borrowing.


Its not borrowing at all.

You can never buy more than you have ISK for.

Margin trading lets you put speculative buy orders in a similar way to putting a bid on something on ebay. You still ahve to ahve teh ISK up front to close the deal there is no credit involved.



The agent is effectively lending you isk so that you have the potential to spend more than you currently have. Of course you will need to get more isk from sales/other activities before you run into a negative figure. Although you won't be able actually go negative as the agent will intervene. So you are technically borrowing.

Margin trading and the agent's intervention is why players can scam the way that they do with that skill.
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
OnlyFleets.
#18 - 2015-09-03 11:27:55 UTC
no, thats wrong, nobody is lending you anything, you have 1bil isk and you place 2 orders for 500mil each, without margin trading you will have 0 isk in wallet, with margin trading you will only be puting a percentage into escrow, so you could have orders of 5bil, but you dont have 5bil isk so you wont get 5bil worth or products, you get what you can pay for whichever item from the orders sell to you first

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-09-03 11:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Lan Wang wrote:
no, thats wrong, nobody is lending you anything, you have 1bil isk and you place 2 orders for 500mil each, without margin trading you will have 0 isk in wallet, with margin trading you will only be puting a percentage into escrow, so you could have orders of 5bil, but you dont have 5bil isk so you wont get 5bil worth or products, you get what you can pay for whichever item from the orders sell to you first



When I say they're lending you isk, I don't mean they physically give it to you. They hang onto the loan so that it extends your buying power. Like any loan it still has to be paid back and as they are in control of the loan they don't let you buy anything that you can't afford.

I still wouldn't personally use the market trading skill.